Felice wanted to see the Jim Gaffigan bourbon special. She asked how we could watch it. I told her we could just pull up the YouTube app on the Roku!
Which we did.
Looked good, but not everything blown up to 65" does. Are people surfing YouTube on their giant flat screen TVs? The news tells us they are...
But the news is completely out of touch.
So we just had a club panel here at Aspen Live. These were the sharpest people in attendance, because they live where the rubber meets the road. Anybody can promote a Taylor Swift show and sell out, and this is the case with a zillion arena acts. But at the club level? How do you know how to book and how do you get people to come?
That's the challenge.
Brent Fedrizzi said that in many cases you were flying blind. You got a call from an agent, looked at the Spotify numbers...
And business is so bad because today's kids are not drinking alcohol. Assuming they're drinking at all! Used to be patrons were drawn to club shows by radio and print, often driven by the major labels. Steve Chilton said he never booked a major label act. Those companies are out of the artist development game. They don't want to start at zero and build an act, they'd rather just find someone with online traction and make a deal.
So where does this leave the developing act, the one at the bottom, what gets people to come see them?
So I loved that Jim Gaffigan wasn't doing the special for money. That's something that still permeates the music business, no one wants to work if they don't get paid. But a career is now an holistic, all-encompassing venture, it's not only streaming numbers and ticket sales. What can you do to bond an audience to you? Gaffigan took a risk (although the costs were underwritten by the man, i.e. the corporation), he knew his focus on bourbon was too narrow for a major streamer. Oh, he could have made a deal, he's that big and outlets want to be in business with him. But would it be good for the fan and his career? No.
So when Gaffigan was done, we decided to check out some of the comedic offerings on YouTube. I watch a lot of comedy on TikTok, I've heard some great routines, but what I was pulling up on YouTube was unknowns who were not quite good enough. And we're all time-challenged. We want great. So we start a few more videos, even Gaffigan's greatest hits, but nothing is truly clicking.
And then I click on this 800 Pound Gorilla multi-act clip which starts off with Matt Rife.
I didn't even know who Rife was until a couple of years back a car salesman in Vermont, a woman, said she had to drive to Maine to see him. And that ain't close. But that desire, when people have it there are no limits (and not only no limits to the distance traveled, but the money spent).
And then I started reading criticism of Rife. How he was young and trading on his good looks. I don't know, I'm just giving you the scuttlebutt.
But since Rife was the starting act on this 800 Pound Gorilla clip, I decided to let it play.
So Rife is on stage, it's a typical comedy club. Well, a bit bigger than many, it had a balcony.
So... He's doing his routine, and then he goes into crowd work. Where he starts quizzing the audience. In this case he wants to know women's red flags.
And a couple are coughed up and... Rife is good with the interaction, the blowback. He'll let you speak, but he will comment, he might dig.
But what blew my mind was that he got into it with this woman, and the story ultimately went to a place where I laughed out loud, it was so hysterical. Just a real person in real life.
This is what comedy is selling. Is this what music is selling?
We don't have the Tubes at the Roxy... We've got someone unseasoned who believes that standing up and playing is enough. Used to be you saw an act and they were so overwhelming that you had to tell everybody you knew about them and their show, had to drag your friends to the next show. Now the goal is to get big enough that you can play arenas with a ton of production. This is what MTV has wrought. Managers and acts say the audience expects it. I'm not so sure, all I know is these shows laden with production are closer to the Vegas of yore than the heart of rock and roll. It's a spectacular, often timed to the instant, so the images and the pyro sync. Where is the humanity? Nonexistent.
But it was there in this Matt Rife clip.
Now if you see a great act in a club...they tell stories, they connect with the audience personally. That's what bonds people to you, makes people want to come back. But that's been lost.
But the problem is music is now competing with not only YouTube, but TikTok, and the way you build an audience on these platforms is by being clever... It's an intellectual exercise. How can the person make a clip that will stimulate your heart or your brain or maybe both? All the old school people pooh-pooh TikTok. But everyone on the panel said that's where acts get started today, that's where the audience finds them. And this disconnect is not only in music... Oldsters can't stop telling youngsters to put the phone down. They might as well tell addicts not to shoot heroin.
So what sells today is greatness, which is often based on innovation. And you can't only get it in music.
So since I watched that video on YouTube on the Roku without signing in... I searched and searched but just could not find it again.
But I found a clip. Which is just a partial cut of Rife's set.
So, with the foregoing buildup, this clip may not ring your bell. But I recommend you watch it anyway. You can take it from the very top, or start at 4:52, where Rife sets up the crowd work. And then watch. It builds...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe9ycTBoX94
It's days later and I'm still thinking about it, writing about it. That's what you need to break through with music. With any art form today.
This is what separates the legends from the fly-by-nights. The culture. The meaning. The depth. The touching of the audience's soul...or maybe just making them laugh.
Think about it.
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Friday, 5 December 2025
More Live Album Covers-SiriusXM This Week
Tune in Saturday December 6th to Faction Talk, channel 103, at 4 PM East, 1 PM West.
If you miss the episode, you can hear it on demand on the SiriusXM app. Search: Lefsetz
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Wednesday, 3 December 2025
Aspen
You know that feeling when you're about to land and suddenly the pilot pulls back on the controls and the nose of the airplane rises into the sky?
Then you know you're not going to make it.
Actually, one time I was landing in Toronto on a snow day, our plane actually touched the tarmac, and then we lifted right back up. WTF was that?
It seems to me in the old days, the pilot would get on the intercom right away and hip you to what was going on. But we were mystified in T.O. until we were way back in the sky and the pilot said there was a plane further down the runway and with the snow we might not have been able to stop soon enough...
The second time was a charm.
But not today.
There's a direct flight from L.A. to Aspen now. Used to be you had to land in Denver and take a puddle jumper into Sardy Field. You know that bucking bronco from "Urban Cowboy"? It was oftentimes like that...
Well, do people even remember "Urban Cowboy" and the line-dancing craze? When Debra Winger dominated the screen? She disappeared for a while, never to be replaced. Now we tend to get 10s who can't act. And the great thing is Debra was a 9 or an 8, better looking than the average bear, but you'd grown up with someone like her, you could relate.
Eegads! Did I just use a numbering system to rate women? That was a faux pas before Trump... But we've pulled back from the politically correct woke, as we should have... Then again, pardoning Cuellar and getting rid of the CAFE rules... Every day I turn on my phone and read the news and am convinced I'm living in Bizarroland.
So we go up, up, up, and I'm convinced that we're being diverted, to probably Grand Junction on the Western Slope...that's a different weather pattern, it's much drier.
But no, we circle back around, the nose of the airplane dips, and now the hills are so close you think you can reach out and touch them. We're just about down...
And the pilot pulls back up on the stick...
And I'm asking myself... How much fuel does this plane have? They don't fly with much more than they need and....I've been diverted because a plane was low on gas.
So what the hell are we going to do now?
We're heading up into the stratosphere, like we never ever came close to land, and then finally, the pilot comes on the PA and tells us we're going to go to Grand Junction. And we're going to track the weather, and if it's clear enough, we'll take another shot.
Or they'll bus us.
Which they ended up doing. Summoning a coach. Add two hours and fifteen minutes of road time to this journey. But I wasn't pissed. In my old age I cope with f*ck-ups better. We'll miss our annual lunch at the White House Tavern, and I won't be able to go to every ski shop to see the new wares (although most of the stuff is online these days), but we'll get there in time for the annual BBQ.
Yes, that's how Jim Lewi's Aspen Live starts, on Wednesday night.
It used to be the Aspen Artist Development Conference, but then the labels cut back on artist development people and then cut back on spending all together, and doesn't live run the business today?
As for the conference... It's old home week. You start to see people in the airport. You walk into the lobby of the Limelight Hotel and it's like a summer camp reunion. Makes you feel connected and loved.
So we're riding along in the bus, and there's no snow on the ground, up at the top of the glorious mountains there's a little, but things are dry...
Until we're a bit out of Glenwood Springs and there are flurries.
My phone is going wild with people in Denver, planning how they're going to make it over the passes to Aspen, but...
The flurries turn into snow.
One thing you've got to know about Colorado is it's not like Utah. In Utah it DUMPS! Four or five inches an hour at Alta and Snowbird. We get that in Colorado a couple of times a year, but really it's a regular drone of snow, light stuff that accumulates.
And that's the snow we're getting as we're taking Highway 82 into town.
And then traffic is backed up in the other direction. This usually happens when there's a snowplow leading, but I didn't see one.
The pavement is now completely covered with snow. It's only dangerous if you don't know how to drive in these conditions. But today with four wheel drive and anti-lock brakes...it's much easier than it used to be.
And we're rolling along slowly and then...
How do I say this... It was like being in a movie, going from color to black and white, from today to yesterday...
I was suddenly rooted. I was no longer looking at the environment, but part of it! This is how it was living in Vermont. Where the snow never leaves the ground during the winter and the days are gray...the land of hot chocolate and board games.
My roots.
Now we live in a world where flights are cheap and people travel constantly. So to pick up and fly to Colorado to ski...it's not the exotic effort of yesteryear. And when I'm in the condo in Vail... The streets are heated and the gondola is right outside the door and I don't do that much driving.
But now we're on the highway into town, driving by Paepcke Park... I've been coming to Aspen since 1970, back before the logo stores appeared. I've got roots. And I'm not bragging, I'm just saying it felt beyond familiar, like this is where I belong, like this is home.
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Then you know you're not going to make it.
Actually, one time I was landing in Toronto on a snow day, our plane actually touched the tarmac, and then we lifted right back up. WTF was that?
It seems to me in the old days, the pilot would get on the intercom right away and hip you to what was going on. But we were mystified in T.O. until we were way back in the sky and the pilot said there was a plane further down the runway and with the snow we might not have been able to stop soon enough...
The second time was a charm.
But not today.
There's a direct flight from L.A. to Aspen now. Used to be you had to land in Denver and take a puddle jumper into Sardy Field. You know that bucking bronco from "Urban Cowboy"? It was oftentimes like that...
Well, do people even remember "Urban Cowboy" and the line-dancing craze? When Debra Winger dominated the screen? She disappeared for a while, never to be replaced. Now we tend to get 10s who can't act. And the great thing is Debra was a 9 or an 8, better looking than the average bear, but you'd grown up with someone like her, you could relate.
Eegads! Did I just use a numbering system to rate women? That was a faux pas before Trump... But we've pulled back from the politically correct woke, as we should have... Then again, pardoning Cuellar and getting rid of the CAFE rules... Every day I turn on my phone and read the news and am convinced I'm living in Bizarroland.
So we go up, up, up, and I'm convinced that we're being diverted, to probably Grand Junction on the Western Slope...that's a different weather pattern, it's much drier.
But no, we circle back around, the nose of the airplane dips, and now the hills are so close you think you can reach out and touch them. We're just about down...
And the pilot pulls back up on the stick...
And I'm asking myself... How much fuel does this plane have? They don't fly with much more than they need and....I've been diverted because a plane was low on gas.
So what the hell are we going to do now?
We're heading up into the stratosphere, like we never ever came close to land, and then finally, the pilot comes on the PA and tells us we're going to go to Grand Junction. And we're going to track the weather, and if it's clear enough, we'll take another shot.
Or they'll bus us.
Which they ended up doing. Summoning a coach. Add two hours and fifteen minutes of road time to this journey. But I wasn't pissed. In my old age I cope with f*ck-ups better. We'll miss our annual lunch at the White House Tavern, and I won't be able to go to every ski shop to see the new wares (although most of the stuff is online these days), but we'll get there in time for the annual BBQ.
Yes, that's how Jim Lewi's Aspen Live starts, on Wednesday night.
It used to be the Aspen Artist Development Conference, but then the labels cut back on artist development people and then cut back on spending all together, and doesn't live run the business today?
As for the conference... It's old home week. You start to see people in the airport. You walk into the lobby of the Limelight Hotel and it's like a summer camp reunion. Makes you feel connected and loved.
So we're riding along in the bus, and there's no snow on the ground, up at the top of the glorious mountains there's a little, but things are dry...
Until we're a bit out of Glenwood Springs and there are flurries.
My phone is going wild with people in Denver, planning how they're going to make it over the passes to Aspen, but...
The flurries turn into snow.
One thing you've got to know about Colorado is it's not like Utah. In Utah it DUMPS! Four or five inches an hour at Alta and Snowbird. We get that in Colorado a couple of times a year, but really it's a regular drone of snow, light stuff that accumulates.
And that's the snow we're getting as we're taking Highway 82 into town.
And then traffic is backed up in the other direction. This usually happens when there's a snowplow leading, but I didn't see one.
The pavement is now completely covered with snow. It's only dangerous if you don't know how to drive in these conditions. But today with four wheel drive and anti-lock brakes...it's much easier than it used to be.
And we're rolling along slowly and then...
How do I say this... It was like being in a movie, going from color to black and white, from today to yesterday...
I was suddenly rooted. I was no longer looking at the environment, but part of it! This is how it was living in Vermont. Where the snow never leaves the ground during the winter and the days are gray...the land of hot chocolate and board games.
My roots.
Now we live in a world where flights are cheap and people travel constantly. So to pick up and fly to Colorado to ski...it's not the exotic effort of yesteryear. And when I'm in the condo in Vail... The streets are heated and the gondola is right outside the door and I don't do that much driving.
But now we're on the highway into town, driving by Paepcke Park... I've been coming to Aspen since 1970, back before the logo stores appeared. I've got roots. And I'm not bragging, I'm just saying it felt beyond familiar, like this is where I belong, like this is home.
--
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--
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-iHeart: https://ihr.fm/2Gi5PFj
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Tuesday, 2 December 2025
Re-Per Stream Payouts-corrected
I hope all is well with you and yours.
I worked at AWAL as its U.S. SVP of Business Affairs from 2018-2023, and it was amazing to see how many indie artists at AWAL were earning real money while owning their recordings and controlling how and when they were released and licensed. As an attorney, I can't share details, but Kobalt's founder, Willard Ahdritz, summed it up pretty well in 2020 in this and other articles: https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/hundreds-of-artists-are-now-earning-100k-per-year-via-kobalts-awal/. (Sony bought AWAL in 2021 and, when I left two years ago, it was still very much the same company.)
As Willard said, there is a significant and growing "middle class" of artists who generate enough streams to net at least $100k/year. This isn't a myth or an urban legend. These artists exist. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Based on average broad-stroke streaming "rates" (which are constantly evolving), it may take about 3,200,000 monthly streams for an artist to earn $100k/year. While 3,200,000 may appear to be an intimidating number, that's roughly the equivalent of 25,000 fans listening to a 15-track album just twice a week, or 100,000 fans listening just twice a month. Most of these artists fly under the media's radar because they build their fan bases primarily via digital marketing. This simply would not have been possible pre-Spotify.
I'm not suggesting that Spotify is some kind of savior or can do no wrong. They're a business, after all, trying to maximize profit. But, without Spotify and Apple Music and the other DSPs, there would be thousands of currently successful artists stranded on the outside looking in, as they were 30 years ago, trying to figure out how to get their songs played on terrestrial radio and how to secure shelf space for their new CDs at record stores.
Dan Stuart
General Counsel
Seeker Music
(You may have been one of the 25,000 subscribers who got this missive previously with a mistake, which has been corrected above. Here is the correction from Dan Stuart: "it may take about 3,200,000 monthly streams for an artist to earn $100k/year (not month)")
______________________________________
We talked about this topic extensively when I did your podcast...and I still don't get why people don't get it. The details are no more arcane and complex than they were in the physical distribution era (in fact, much of the business is simpler and cleaner) and the basic math is pretty simple.
Ultimately, it's about ownership vs. loanership. If you own your masters and publishing (as we do for the Presidents' debut) and have any traction with listeners, you're going to make money. And more of it, in a more clearly accountable way than if you had to distribute physical product. I.e., you get a monthly accounting from your digital distributor with transparent tracking of your usage and payments, versus a 100-page statement once or twice a year from a label or distributor, typically riddled with holdbacks and exceptions and other minor mechanisms designed to rip you off. Ask any major label artist or indie label owner about this. I know multiple former indie label owners who had good distribution deals in the physical era but in the end gave up, tired of dealing with inventory and getting the product out there and getting returns back, etc.
And you are also right about artists' odd sense of entitlement. The cream will rise to the top, and there's only so much cream. Not to mention that it's impossible to predict what the cream will look and taste like...case in point, I have absolutely no freaking idea how a band as weird as ours could ever have possibly broken out, but it happened and it happens over and over.
best,
Dave Dederer
______________________________________
Every time I speak at a conference, I have to re-explain this too. Once a false narrative takes hold, it is very hard to change. In every era, no matter the format or pricing model, regardless of genre, popular artists made a lot of money.
If you are popular, you make money. If you are not, you complain.
Scott Cohen
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I worked at AWAL as its U.S. SVP of Business Affairs from 2018-2023, and it was amazing to see how many indie artists at AWAL were earning real money while owning their recordings and controlling how and when they were released and licensed. As an attorney, I can't share details, but Kobalt's founder, Willard Ahdritz, summed it up pretty well in 2020 in this and other articles: https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/hundreds-of-artists-are-now-earning-100k-per-year-via-kobalts-awal/. (Sony bought AWAL in 2021 and, when I left two years ago, it was still very much the same company.)
As Willard said, there is a significant and growing "middle class" of artists who generate enough streams to net at least $100k/year. This isn't a myth or an urban legend. These artists exist. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Based on average broad-stroke streaming "rates" (which are constantly evolving), it may take about 3,200,000 monthly streams for an artist to earn $100k/year. While 3,200,000 may appear to be an intimidating number, that's roughly the equivalent of 25,000 fans listening to a 15-track album just twice a week, or 100,000 fans listening just twice a month. Most of these artists fly under the media's radar because they build their fan bases primarily via digital marketing. This simply would not have been possible pre-Spotify.
I'm not suggesting that Spotify is some kind of savior or can do no wrong. They're a business, after all, trying to maximize profit. But, without Spotify and Apple Music and the other DSPs, there would be thousands of currently successful artists stranded on the outside looking in, as they were 30 years ago, trying to figure out how to get their songs played on terrestrial radio and how to secure shelf space for their new CDs at record stores.
Dan Stuart
General Counsel
Seeker Music
(You may have been one of the 25,000 subscribers who got this missive previously with a mistake, which has been corrected above. Here is the correction from Dan Stuart: "it may take about 3,200,000 monthly streams for an artist to earn $100k/year (not month)")
______________________________________
We talked about this topic extensively when I did your podcast...and I still don't get why people don't get it. The details are no more arcane and complex than they were in the physical distribution era (in fact, much of the business is simpler and cleaner) and the basic math is pretty simple.
Ultimately, it's about ownership vs. loanership. If you own your masters and publishing (as we do for the Presidents' debut) and have any traction with listeners, you're going to make money. And more of it, in a more clearly accountable way than if you had to distribute physical product. I.e., you get a monthly accounting from your digital distributor with transparent tracking of your usage and payments, versus a 100-page statement once or twice a year from a label or distributor, typically riddled with holdbacks and exceptions and other minor mechanisms designed to rip you off. Ask any major label artist or indie label owner about this. I know multiple former indie label owners who had good distribution deals in the physical era but in the end gave up, tired of dealing with inventory and getting the product out there and getting returns back, etc.
And you are also right about artists' odd sense of entitlement. The cream will rise to the top, and there's only so much cream. Not to mention that it's impossible to predict what the cream will look and taste like...case in point, I have absolutely no freaking idea how a band as weird as ours could ever have possibly broken out, but it happened and it happens over and over.
best,
Dave Dederer
______________________________________
Every time I speak at a conference, I have to re-explain this too. Once a false narrative takes hold, it is very hard to change. In every era, no matter the format or pricing model, regardless of genre, popular artists made a lot of money.
If you are popular, you make money. If you are not, you complain.
Scott Cohen
--
Visit the archive: http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/
--
Listen to the podcast:
-iHeart: https://ihr.fm/2Gi5PFj
-Apple: https://apple.co/2ndmpvp
--
http://www.twitter.com/lefsetz
--
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Re-Per Stream Payouts
I hope all is well with you and yours.
I worked at AWAL as its U.S. SVP of Business Affairs from 2018-2023, and it was amazing to see how many indie artists at AWAL were earning real money while owning their recordings and controlling how and when they were released and licensed. As an attorney, I can't share details, but Kobalt's founder, Willard Ahdritz, summed it up pretty well in 2020 in this and other articles: https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/hundreds-of-artists-are-now-earning-100k-per-year-via-kobalts-awal/. (Sony bought AWAL in 2021 and, when I left two years ago, it was still very much the same company.)
As Willard said, there is a significant and growing "middle class" of artists who generate enough streams to net at least $100k/year. This isn't a myth or an urban legend. These artists exist. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Based on average broad-stroke streaming "rates" (which are constantly evolving), it may take about 3,200,000 monthly streams for an artist to earn $100k/month. While 3,200,000 may appear to be an intimidating number, that's roughly the equivalent of 25,000 fans listening to a 15-track album just twice a week, or 100,000 fans listening just twice a month. Most of these artists fly under the media's radar because they build their fan bases primarily via digital marketing. This simply would not have been possible pre-Spotify.
I'm not suggesting that Spotify is some kind of savior or can do no wrong. They're a business, after all, trying to maximize profit. But, without Spotify and Apple Music and the other DSPs, there would be thousands of currently successful artists stranded on the outside looking in, as they were 30 years ago, trying to figure out how to get their songs played on terrestrial radio and how to secure shelf space for their new CDs at record stores.
Dan Stuart
General Counsel
Seeker Music
______________________________________
We talked about this topic extensively when I did your podcast...and I still don't get why people don't get it. The details are no more arcane and complex than they were in the physical distribution era (in fact, much of the business is simpler and cleaner) and the basic math is pretty simple.
Ultimately, it's about ownership vs. loanership. If you own your masters and publishing (as we do for the Presidents' debut) and have any traction with listeners, you're going to make money. And more of it, in a more clearly accountable way than if you had to distribute physical product. I.e., you get a monthly accounting from your digital distributor with transparent tracking of your usage and payments, versus a 100-page statement once or twice a year from a label or distributor, typically riddled with holdbacks and exceptions and other minor mechanisms designed to rip you off. Ask any major label artist or indie label owner about this. I know multiple former indie label owners who had good distribution deals in the physical era but in the end gave up, tired of dealing with inventory and getting the product out there and getting returns back, etc.
And you are also right about artists' odd sense of entitlement. The cream will rise to the top, and there's only so much cream. Not to mention that it's impossible to predict what the cream will look and taste like...case in point, I have absolutely no freaking idea how a band as weird as ours could ever have possibly broken out, but it happened and it happens over and over.
best,
Dave Dederer
______________________________________
Every time I speak at a conference, I have to re-explain this too. Once a false narrative takes hold, it is very hard to change. In every era, no matter the format or pricing model, regardless of genre, popular artists made a lot of money.
If you are popular, you make money. If you are not, you complain.
Scott Cohen
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I worked at AWAL as its U.S. SVP of Business Affairs from 2018-2023, and it was amazing to see how many indie artists at AWAL were earning real money while owning their recordings and controlling how and when they were released and licensed. As an attorney, I can't share details, but Kobalt's founder, Willard Ahdritz, summed it up pretty well in 2020 in this and other articles: https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/hundreds-of-artists-are-now-earning-100k-per-year-via-kobalts-awal/. (Sony bought AWAL in 2021 and, when I left two years ago, it was still very much the same company.)
As Willard said, there is a significant and growing "middle class" of artists who generate enough streams to net at least $100k/year. This isn't a myth or an urban legend. These artists exist. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Based on average broad-stroke streaming "rates" (which are constantly evolving), it may take about 3,200,000 monthly streams for an artist to earn $100k/month. While 3,200,000 may appear to be an intimidating number, that's roughly the equivalent of 25,000 fans listening to a 15-track album just twice a week, or 100,000 fans listening just twice a month. Most of these artists fly under the media's radar because they build their fan bases primarily via digital marketing. This simply would not have been possible pre-Spotify.
I'm not suggesting that Spotify is some kind of savior or can do no wrong. They're a business, after all, trying to maximize profit. But, without Spotify and Apple Music and the other DSPs, there would be thousands of currently successful artists stranded on the outside looking in, as they were 30 years ago, trying to figure out how to get their songs played on terrestrial radio and how to secure shelf space for their new CDs at record stores.
Dan Stuart
General Counsel
Seeker Music
______________________________________
We talked about this topic extensively when I did your podcast...and I still don't get why people don't get it. The details are no more arcane and complex than they were in the physical distribution era (in fact, much of the business is simpler and cleaner) and the basic math is pretty simple.
Ultimately, it's about ownership vs. loanership. If you own your masters and publishing (as we do for the Presidents' debut) and have any traction with listeners, you're going to make money. And more of it, in a more clearly accountable way than if you had to distribute physical product. I.e., you get a monthly accounting from your digital distributor with transparent tracking of your usage and payments, versus a 100-page statement once or twice a year from a label or distributor, typically riddled with holdbacks and exceptions and other minor mechanisms designed to rip you off. Ask any major label artist or indie label owner about this. I know multiple former indie label owners who had good distribution deals in the physical era but in the end gave up, tired of dealing with inventory and getting the product out there and getting returns back, etc.
And you are also right about artists' odd sense of entitlement. The cream will rise to the top, and there's only so much cream. Not to mention that it's impossible to predict what the cream will look and taste like...case in point, I have absolutely no freaking idea how a band as weird as ours could ever have possibly broken out, but it happened and it happens over and over.
best,
Dave Dederer
______________________________________
Every time I speak at a conference, I have to re-explain this too. Once a false narrative takes hold, it is very hard to change. In every era, no matter the format or pricing model, regardless of genre, popular artists made a lot of money.
If you are popular, you make money. If you are not, you complain.
Scott Cohen
--
Visit the archive: http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/
--
Listen to the podcast:
-iHeart: https://ihr.fm/2Gi5PFj
-Apple: https://apple.co/2ndmpvp
--
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Monday, 1 December 2025
Derek Shulman's Book
"Giant Steps: My Improbable Journey From Stage Lights To Executive Heights"
https://www.amazon.com/Giant-Steps-Improbable-Journey-Executive/dp/1916829244
If you're a fan of the man and his bands you're gonna love this book.
I met Derek back in 1990, when I wrote about the Rembrandts, a band on his nascent label, Atco. Their manager sent me an advance cassette and I loved it. It was a return to form for Danny Wilde, who'd made a great solo album for Island, "The Boyfriend" (one of my absolute favorites, I play it regularly to this day), but Danny could never quite hit those heights with his subsequent records on Geffen. But after reuniting with his old buddy Phil Solem, the magic was recaptured, and I loved it.
This led to not only phone calls, but endless get togethers with Derek. Who I could relate to. Maybe because he was a musician before he was a suit.
Actually, I remember going to lunch with him at the Ivy, whereupon he complained...why are we going here? He could afford it, but he wanted something more down and dirty than my pick.
And Derek would talk like I knew all of his history, but I didn't.
You see Derek was a teen phenom as the frontman of Simon Dupree and the Big Sound, which had a slew of hits in the U.K., but meant nothing in America.
As for the follow-up band, Gentle Giant...the only album I owned was "Giant for a Day," which Derek told me was one of their worst!
I'd only dipped my toe into Gentle Giant, because how many prog rock records could I afford? I was into Yes from the very first album (do you know their version of "Every Little Thing" by the Beatles? Killer!) And I hate to tell you I really got into Genesis after Peter Gabriel left the band, "Trick of the Tail" with "Squonk" is amazing (and don't criticize me too much, I bought Gabriel's first when it was released, and every one thereafter, and went back and bought the Genesis catalog), but Gentle Giant did not break through in L.A. and after I bought that one album...
But in this book, Derek delineates the history of that band.
You see Derek pivoted back before the techies brought that concept to the forefront. He didn't want to keep playing the same old pop, he didn't run it into the ground, Gentle Giant was new and different and gathered fans and accolades but eventually the writing was on the wall and Derek crossed over to the other side, with Polydor...starting as a radio promotion man and then working his way up to A&R, where he signed...
Bon Jovi.
And Cinderella.
And as a result of all this success, he was given his own label under the old Atlantic moniker, Atco... Where he had success with not only the Rembrandts, but a resuscitated AC/DC and more and then Doug Morris stole the label out from under him. Brought in his crony Sylvia Rhone...Derek could have theoretically stayed, but once again the writing was on the wall. This was over.
So he ended up working with Cees Wessels and grew Roadrunner into a monolith. You know, with Nickelback. Ha! I remember Derek sent me a box of CDs and I said that was the one even though he was focused on other acts, and a few years later Nickelback blew up. And I know you hate Chad, but "How You Remind Me" is a fantastic track, truly.
And underneath this entire journey was Derek's Jewishness.
Sure, a lot of suits were Jewish, but not a lot of musicians, and those who were didn't make a big deal of it. But Derek was the first to hip me to the technological breakthroughs of Israel and... Derek owned who he was, with no airs, he's a good guy.
So do you need another rock biography?
As I stated at the top, if you're a fan of Derek, definitely. As for the rest... There's a lot of focus on the early days, which most acts never delineate in their books, they go straight for the breakthroughs. And those are the most interesting pages, the early days in the U.K. Calling off his engagement to a wealthy woman whose father would bring him into the business because it just didn't feel right.
This exact story hasn't been told elsewhere. Because there aren't that many people who had success on both sides of the fence.
But Derek did.
I read his book in a day.
I was interested. I think you will be too.
--
Visit the archive: http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/
--
Listen to the podcast:
-iHeart: https://ihr.fm/2Gi5PFj
-Apple: https://apple.co/2ndmpvp
--
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https://www.amazon.com/Giant-Steps-Improbable-Journey-Executive/dp/1916829244
If you're a fan of the man and his bands you're gonna love this book.
I met Derek back in 1990, when I wrote about the Rembrandts, a band on his nascent label, Atco. Their manager sent me an advance cassette and I loved it. It was a return to form for Danny Wilde, who'd made a great solo album for Island, "The Boyfriend" (one of my absolute favorites, I play it regularly to this day), but Danny could never quite hit those heights with his subsequent records on Geffen. But after reuniting with his old buddy Phil Solem, the magic was recaptured, and I loved it.
This led to not only phone calls, but endless get togethers with Derek. Who I could relate to. Maybe because he was a musician before he was a suit.
Actually, I remember going to lunch with him at the Ivy, whereupon he complained...why are we going here? He could afford it, but he wanted something more down and dirty than my pick.
And Derek would talk like I knew all of his history, but I didn't.
You see Derek was a teen phenom as the frontman of Simon Dupree and the Big Sound, which had a slew of hits in the U.K., but meant nothing in America.
As for the follow-up band, Gentle Giant...the only album I owned was "Giant for a Day," which Derek told me was one of their worst!
I'd only dipped my toe into Gentle Giant, because how many prog rock records could I afford? I was into Yes from the very first album (do you know their version of "Every Little Thing" by the Beatles? Killer!) And I hate to tell you I really got into Genesis after Peter Gabriel left the band, "Trick of the Tail" with "Squonk" is amazing (and don't criticize me too much, I bought Gabriel's first when it was released, and every one thereafter, and went back and bought the Genesis catalog), but Gentle Giant did not break through in L.A. and after I bought that one album...
But in this book, Derek delineates the history of that band.
You see Derek pivoted back before the techies brought that concept to the forefront. He didn't want to keep playing the same old pop, he didn't run it into the ground, Gentle Giant was new and different and gathered fans and accolades but eventually the writing was on the wall and Derek crossed over to the other side, with Polydor...starting as a radio promotion man and then working his way up to A&R, where he signed...
Bon Jovi.
And Cinderella.
And as a result of all this success, he was given his own label under the old Atlantic moniker, Atco... Where he had success with not only the Rembrandts, but a resuscitated AC/DC and more and then Doug Morris stole the label out from under him. Brought in his crony Sylvia Rhone...Derek could have theoretically stayed, but once again the writing was on the wall. This was over.
So he ended up working with Cees Wessels and grew Roadrunner into a monolith. You know, with Nickelback. Ha! I remember Derek sent me a box of CDs and I said that was the one even though he was focused on other acts, and a few years later Nickelback blew up. And I know you hate Chad, but "How You Remind Me" is a fantastic track, truly.
And underneath this entire journey was Derek's Jewishness.
Sure, a lot of suits were Jewish, but not a lot of musicians, and those who were didn't make a big deal of it. But Derek was the first to hip me to the technological breakthroughs of Israel and... Derek owned who he was, with no airs, he's a good guy.
So do you need another rock biography?
As I stated at the top, if you're a fan of Derek, definitely. As for the rest... There's a lot of focus on the early days, which most acts never delineate in their books, they go straight for the breakthroughs. And those are the most interesting pages, the early days in the U.K. Calling off his engagement to a wealthy woman whose father would bring him into the business because it just didn't feel right.
This exact story hasn't been told elsewhere. Because there aren't that many people who had success on both sides of the fence.
But Derek did.
I read his book in a day.
I was interested. I think you will be too.
--
Visit the archive: http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/
--
Listen to the podcast:
-iHeart: https://ihr.fm/2Gi5PFj
-Apple: https://apple.co/2ndmpvp
--
http://www.twitter.com/lefsetz
--
If you would like to subscribe to the LefsetzLetter,
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