I'm a longtime reader and big fan of your rants and raves. I am a singer-writer, and I just moved back to Boston from DC. I really don't get all the friggin whining. I'm 24 years old and as close to broke as is possible. I have a shitty car and a crappy apartment which I paid for through hard work, outside the music business. Before I moved to Boston, I was working in a kitchen as a sous chef 65-80 hours a week, saving money. Now I'm working only a few days a week bartending and doing occasional catering.
The only reason I can afford to drive my car to NYC and Portland, Maine for gigs is because I worked my ass off at a decent job and saved. To all the people crying bout how they can't afford this and that: shut the hell up. No one is gonna pay you to do this, nor is anyone asking you to do it. Get a job that pays well, and when your done working start practicing. How many of these whiners do I see out at the bars spending the money they don't have.
The reality is that a lot of these kids are relying on Mom and Dad for there rock and roll budget. But Mom and Dad's pockets only go so deep.
You gotta save, and unfortunately that means taking time away from music. Well, get over it. Les Claypool worked as a carpenter until Primus got their break. Grueling labor, but it pays 15-20/hr. I guess it's really unfortunate that coffee shops only pay minimum wage, otherwise we'd all be able to tour the East Coast on a whim.
You wanna be a musician? You gotta have a car, you gotta have a practice space, and you gotta have money. End of story. So find 8 friends, rent a house outside the city, and set up shop in the basement. And also stop fucking whining.
Patrick Donovan Mulroy
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Sorry, but I call bullshit on this. Most kids today are lazy plain and simple. We, as a society, have a serious problem. It is called a warped as hell sense of entitlement. They can't figure it out because they are willing to figure it out. Work a shit job 8-10 hours a day. Practice 6-8 hours a day. Go to sleep. Repeat...again and again until you find that you aren't failing anymore. This shit makes me almost as crazy as how NBC has turned the Olympics into an continuous episodes of American Idol.
Marty Winsch
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Thanks for posting this.
There's an awful lot of rhetoric out there these days about musicians needing to work harder or get off their "high horses". But this email captures rather simple truth... most would be happy to table the rockstar dreams in order to create a viable way continue making music while living a reasonable lifestyle. You've written on occasion about foregoing families and relationships and sactificing for the sake of music.
I see the broader truth within your argument--- but Bob, we're singers, guitar players, pianists, DJs, and drummers--- not catholic priests.
Adit Rao
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I'm a Berklee grad and benefitted from that education. I have made a good living as a player and now as a manager. Bonnie speaks of a new and cruel reality. The irony is that a 4 year education at Berklee now costs 200K all in. Tuition alone is up 1700 % since I attended. That's hard to justify by the average young musician and his family.
Music used to mean something...used to be worth something to people. Now it's there for the taking and our free music marketplace has rendered it worthless to society...background noise. As a result many smart and creative people are choosing other vocations. Sad.
Mark Jones
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Bonnie is so right. We are in the era where in order to be a young musician you need another source of income. The possibilities of being able to make a living playing or writing music were always remote. Now it is nearly impossible.
James Del Balzo
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Great letter--and it's been a decade since I've heard "Shelly's Boyfriend"!! This made my day. So glad Bonnie is doing well! That first record is, as the Allmusic review suggests, a long forgotten gem.
John Dlugosz
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Boston's always been expensive. When I was at Berklee 15 years ago I played in a cover band and made insane money for a college kid and worked on NY original band at the same time.
Point is if you want it badly enough.
Dan Millen
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Hear, hear. The saddest part is that many of the MOST talented give up, and we'll never be exposed to their talents. Yet the dregs continued, and we are often assaulted by a barrage of their mediocrity, just because their daddy has money. (think Lana Delray, or Jimmy Iovine giving an imprint deal to the Maloof brothers)
Give me an "Amen."
Terry Rindal
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Bravo, Bonnie! She has eloquently asked the questions that a lot of us have been afraid to ask. It's a frightening possibility - no musicians, no music, no art. I guess the best thing to do at this point is move to a country like Demark where artists are welcomed and supported, where the average person can find an affordable place to live, where healthcare is not an issue (not sure about non-citizens on that end). Yes, the taxes are high, but guess what? It's worth it to have a populace that's thriving and living and safe and happy throughout all professions, not just the banking industry. America is killing off yet another one if its greatest natural resources...its artists. And nobody but the artistic community seems to give a damn.
Halley DeVestern
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There's two more people Bonnie left out who also share in the angst of those young musicians....the parents who fork over the $$$$ to send their kids to Berklee. It is a $200K roll of the dice when you tell your son or daughter yeah you can go. I agree with Bonnie most of the folks just want to pursue music with a passion but as a parent, you really have to think if your kid will ever make a living doing what they love to do. It is a tough question for the musician/student and parents!
Bill Cunningham
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It's cheaper to make music than ever. It's also easier to complain than ever. Work 9-5 and make music at night, if you want it that bad then you gotta grind for it. Please forward this to Bonnie.
Best
Simon Dolsten
Syracuse University
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From Building bands in the Digital Age: "IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT AT HOME, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT ANYWHERE. IF YOU CAN MAKE IT AT HOME, YOU CAN MAKE IT EVERYWHERE. BECOME THE DOMINANT MUSICAL FORCE WITHIN A 100 MILE RADIUS OF YOUR HOME AND THE WORLD WILL COME TO YOUR DOOR. " HARTMANN
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The irony? Even those kids going to Berklee, learning to spit out charts and pitch like a computer can be totally useless. I had a Berklee vocal major, fresh out, sing on a track for a TV show. She was in pitch, had her nice vibrato, but her timing was A JOKE. I couldn't believe it. How could a vocal major not sing in time?
Either you have it, or you don't. You can't learn it, you can't hope to learn it, you can only try. Too many people try and think they can because of the ease of technology. 96% of all Indie artists are a waste of space, but all think they are rockstars because they can pucker their lips in front of an iphone or make a photo look like a faded pic from 1970 for their album cover. And then you have people like 17 year old Jared Dylan who writes songs like the best of the best, and can sing without the T-Pain treatment. Born with it. If you have to flaunt it with stupid costumes, or blowing bubbles at some industry function, just fall on a knife and get it over with. It will save much more money and resources.
Eric Alexandrakis
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Thank you Bonnie! You so accurately captured our everyday reality, regardless of age or experience! Our culture has descended into a mindset where the creative deserves little, to no compensation, unless, or until, they have an unlimited budget to promote their work,or strike that magical moment of viral discovery via Youtube! For the rest of us diligently pursuing excellence in our craft, it's a daily choice between the power bill, eating, & gas to get to a gig that rarely helps put a dent in the ability to pay for any one of the three! Unless the fortune of the gods strikes, multiple income streams are required today for mere subsistence level living!
There's a lot of days you just feel like hittin' the freeway on ramp with a sign like the woman raisin' money for her boob job! She accomplished her goal after less than 2 weeks effort! Not sure what to put on my sign though! If I say anything about being a musician,they'll just stop & ask for a free CD!
Lucy Hammond
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I can completely relate to this email Bob. Thanks for forwarding.
A.J. Steel
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Amazing email...very well put.
Cliff Rigano
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This is where the DJ culture has upended the system. They can make some serious bucks, all by their lonesome, with virtually no gear to haul around. But hell, now there are 3 million DJ's.... sigh.
Felix Brenner
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100% agreement with Bonnie.. Bob you don't half knock people down on the way up!
Cheers mate
Lawrence Bray
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Good email Bob. I wondered what happened to her. I used to go see her perform at a club on Haight Street near where Ameoba records is now. She was a very talented rocker and easy on the eyes. I'm surprised she didn't hit it big. Maybe if The Voice, or american Idol was around in those days she would have hit it? earning a living as an actor is just as hard as a muscian.
best, alan segal san diego
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How true that is. I left Detroit for SF in the mid 70s with my guitar and $50. Got a job for 4hrs in the morning, had a room and what I needed to survive and could get involved in anything I wanted to without consideration of $. Doesn't seem possible today
Gary D. Strauss
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BONNIE HAYES & THE WILD COMBO!
Pop masters..."Shelley's Boyfriend" is as good as any pop song every recorded, better than 99.9%.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR1fD4DyGzk
Dave Dederer
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Bravo to Bonnie!
Carl Scott
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In response to the email of the day. I don't think what the writer suggests to her students in terms of developing multiple income streams is viable or fair advice. Yes, having multiple income streams is a good thing, but I can tell you first hand that to live in a place like SF (or the greater Bay Area for that matter), you will need several income streams. And if they are the level of income as teaching music, you are setting yourself up for a life of squalor, turning your passion into a "job", and not leaving yourself any time or energy for the creative process in your life. You'll have plenty to write about, I'll give you that... just no time or energy to write it.
I feel there is a new breed of musician emerging out of the South Bay that has figured out how to enjoy their music to the fullest, yet still afford a decent life. These are middle-aged professionals that are just as passionate about music as the young twenty-something seeking advice in the email below. The revelation that they have had is that you will not be able to live a comfortable life relying on income from your music. There, I said it... the 800lb gorilla is out. I'll say it again: You will not be able to live a comfortable life relying on income from your music.
This is neither a good thing or a bad thing, just a statement of fact. Are there those that live off of their music? Sure. Are their those that become professional baseball players and make millions? Sure. What are the chances that YOU will be one of them, especially since the cards are stacked against you? SLIM TO NONE. So why not accept it? This is not accepting defeat, it is pulling your head out of the sand and getting past the denial phase. Get a job that makes enough money for you to live comfortably, with enough job security that you can sleep at night. Then, consider your music a serious hobby. You can allow yourself enough time to write, be in a band, play live, produce and market your own music on your own terms and not have to answer to anybody except yourself! You will enjoy music tenfold!
... Unless.... of course.... you want to be a rock star millionaire.
Mark Jacobs
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Bonnie (and old and dear friend...) nailed it.
When I first went on the road playing guitar professionally with Canadians "Ian and Sylvia" (Felix Pappalardi on bass...) in 1965, I was making $125.00 a week with all expenses on the road covered. I had half of an old duplex in Cambridge (Mitch and Louise Greenhill had the other half) and my rent was $65.00 a month...and I had a roommate covering half of it. So my rent was $32.50 a month...yes, 6% of my gross income for a funky but decent place all of half a mile from Harvard Square with nearby neighbors like Taj Mahal, Richard and Mimi Farina, Tom Rush, guys who became the Younbloods, the Kweskin band, etc. So of course I could afford to be a musician...then... In '66 I moved to a small loft in what's now called NoHo in New York...13 Bleeker St. The rent went to $75.00. Didn't own a car...didn't need one. Utilities were practically nothing since Con Ed couldn't get into the building to read meters and just sent us an estimated...based on what appeared to be barely post WWII costs. Schlepped gear on the subway or just played near by and rolled the amps from the practice room (rented by the Lovin' Spoonful and loaned to us since our bass player was Steve Boone's brother) to the Cafe Au Go Go. Ate on the cheap at home or somebody's girlfriend or wife always seemed to be waitressing. Lived on practically nothing and played music all the time...
Even moving to Marin was cheap in '68...a cabin for $50.00 a month in Pt. Reyes. Of course then I had to have a car...which cost all of $200.00 for a powder puff Studebaker Lark.
That life is as gone as the '20s in Paris...
And now my band from the New York days ( Autosalvage) is about to be profiled on Terry Gross' "Fresh Air" in a piece by Ed Ward. What goes around, and all that...and I'm still living in a warehouse...and it's kind of nice.
Rick Turner
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Hey Bob,
Jimmie Linville here, a songwriter and musician from Madison, WI (recently relocated to Nashville, TN), and this last email struck a chord with me (a minor chord, if you will).
I am not writing to remand what Bonnie has stated, and I think she did address some problems with music well (I especially liked her last paragraph), but I think it's important to address another viewpoint, one which I think is vastly underrepresented. That is, the viewpoint of the typically silent musicians/producers/songwriters who do what they love for a living, relatively independently, and relatively EASILY. I don't think Bonnie is wrong, but I think she is missing the biggest problem that exists for these musicians: poor judgement.
This problem has nothing to do with income inequality or politics or getting rich or any of that. This has to do with prioritizing, and compulsively making good choices.
Why are these musicians trying to live in SF? Boston? NYC? starting out, big cities are a poor choice. they should live in small cities, where they can cut their chops in private, and where it also happens to be inexpensive to live. $300 a room per month here in East Nashville, no shit. You can make that playing ONE night in tiny bar town, USA, and you can keep your monthly cost of living below $700. You don't need a day job, you need time. A day job will pay for the clothes you need to look good at your day job.
the "I need to be where the action is" line doesn't hold water either. Plenty of action here in Nashville. and street parking is free. The houses are big enough to rehearse and if you learn to cook, you don't have to eat out every meal. Have these musicians heard of potatoes? It's not just Nashville though - there are plenty "small ponds" out there too, where you can actually make money in your hometown.
And I'm sorry, but if you're actually booking $25 shows in "podunk," you're an idiot. i book all my own shows, and there are thousands of venues all over the US run by amazing people who respect good musicians enough to pay them at least $200 for a show. sure, maybe you can't get paid in Nashville or NY, but that's just supply and demand.
not enough money? downsize your band. still not enough? stop buying clothes, booze, whatever: if you can't afford to live as a musician, you're doing it wrong. and buying a car has never been easier. We bought two ugly vans on craigslist in the last 4 years for $500 and $800 respectively, and I'm currently riding in one. It seems to be working just fine.
A little guidance helps, and Bonnie's advice about income streams and community is spot on. And I'm always happy to share first hand knowlege of how I make it work; I just think a lot of the musicians who are asking would be doing it compulsively if they were meant to.
Bonnie asks: "I was lucky, and I'm still lucky. How much luck is left for them?" The answer is none, and that's fine. Why do we need luck? If you are a real artist, the journey is the reward. Music on the independent level is not cut out for lucksacks, fame seekers, wannabes, or fakes. People only want real artists. If you're not, well...natural selection. The money will come if it will, and you will pay your rent or you won't.
I hate talking about the money though - it's seriously the LEAST important thing. It draws away from the art, which is 99.9% of it. Any real artist knows the joy is in the creation, the performing, and mostly, the voice you're given as a musician. Not the cash. I would burn a million dollars if it meant I could say what I want about money for 1 minute on national TV. But it doesn't work like that.
Unless you're a songwriter - then maybe you can write a song about it and boom - if it's good, maybe you could change the world. That's enough to make a living.
Jimmie
www.datlband.com
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While I respect Bonnie, and her work, the sample that she's taking from here is a bit off target.
She's hearing from kids that are paying thousands to go to a music school that's trying to tell them what to do and how to do it in an industry that's in complete and total flux, who's physical wares are teetering on decommodification. I've worked at a fairly well known music school in NYC (as well as attending one), and I'll tell you something, music education is not too dissimilar to western medicine.
There's no money in a cure, there's money in a disease.
As long as places like Berklee tout New Business seminars, shiny degrees, and perpetuates the idea that with enough talent, or information you'll be fine, Bonnie is going to be hearing a lot of the same for years (until perhaps the school hits the skids).
Look, you can still live in NYC for peanuts. You can't live somewhere that's cool, safe, or convenient, but you sure as shit can live in NYC and thrive, however you will not learn that in any school. I will pretty much guarantee you that any kid who can afford that school probably doesn't want to move to brownsville, or the bronx, or anywhere that it would take to get the rent to afford to try to make it here. I've carried my cymbal bag, snare and pedal through every borough of this city, on every subway.
Yeah, it sucks, but you do it.
I tell all of my students who are serious about being touring, professional musicians to learn how to tend bar, teach their instrument, or some of skilled trade that they can pick up whenever they come home from tour (and that people are always looking to hire). Some of them make it, a lot of them get fragged the fuck out. Others have trust funds. That's darwinism, sometimes "fair" sometimes not but that's that.
The other side of it is that with technology you can start your career from your podunk town and then hit the road. While gas is expensive, DIY touring is in one of the best places it's ever been between GPS and being able to Priceline every hotel on your way.
I've been lucky enough to work (gainfully) for the past 10 years touring, playing sessions and teaching and continue to do so.
I see and know a lot of young musicians, and many come to me for advice. These aren't people who want to be Rock Stars. They want to live their dream, and many of them understand that being a "Rock Star" is not the end all be all. Being able to create your art, and turn it into a craft and career (or close to one) is enough.
I think it's apparent to them that the industry that created Rock Stars is almost completely dead, and killed most of those stars along the way.
Gaetano Licata
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I have a bit of a different take on the below email. I run a successful music school for kids here in Socal that I started on my own, built from the ground up with very little help from parents/relatives (I was able to allocate some "college money" from my grandma to buy some starting out gear and my mother dedicated the spare bedroom in her two bedroom apartment for me to begin teaching students out of until the landlord put a stop to that a year later). I did end up getting a small loan from a friend's grandma two years in to help me secure a legit location, for which I'm eternally grateful. Along the way, there have been some incredibly generous clients who've helped out with gear purchases, concert costs etc. I am also one of the geniuses who took on $40k in debt to spend a year at Musicians Institute in Hollywood chasing a mirage of rockstardom or making $5k a week touring for (insert pop star).
I put all this detail first because I don't want to give the perspective of never having help. Everyone successful gets help in some form along the way. Be it luck or otherwise. But these college educated musicians just don't get it. They've had so much smoke blown up their asses from their professors that they almost always have a massive sense of entitlement. They're rarely willing to commit to doing real work as a musician. My school offers an opportunity of working part time hours and making (albeit low end) full time income, so you can spend the rest of your week chasing whatever musical pipe dream you think still exists, playing jazz gigs, practicing, or watching videos on TED. And you would not believe how much the staff bitches about teaching more than 15 hours a week (over 3 days no less), putting in a few extra hours prepping for serious students, and doing higher paid work performing at our concerts. It drives me nuts! And to top it off, when I have an opening for a teaching position I spend unending hours convincing LA musicians that it makes sense to take a job with a 45min commute 3 days a week when I have $2k/month starting income waiting for them.
I wish more of these music students would get your emails so they could get a reality check. The "pro-musicians" sob story is one that I've just become immune to. They don't want to work. And even when they do, they are always finding ways to breeze through teaching an art form that are so supposedly passionate about. When I hire performers, they look for every possible way to gloss over learning the actual parts on a recording, thinking they're good enough to just BS it. If a 9-year old doesn't want to commit 20 hours a week practicing, they check out and bitch that the student isn't serious instead of appreciating the income, the commitment to a child's development from the parents and the student's good behavior and attention for 30 minutes.
Every failure in life has a laundry list of excuses on why something didn't work. It doesn't benefit me to say this, but if you're a somewhat competent musician, with enough people skills to carry on a 15 minute phone conversation with a parent, and enough brain power to put together a 30 minute lesson, there is a world of income out there to be made in the industry of "parents finding shit to keep their 7-14 year old kids busy". And you no what, no matter where you went to school, no matter what your artistic standards are, you're not too good to impart music into the life of a kid or an adult looking for a hobby.
If you've failed to earn an income as a musician, you were never meant to earn it anyway.
Thanks for all the insight.
Ryan Van Tuyl
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Reading Bonnie's mail was very interesting since I almost sent my son Jacob to Berkee. While he was in his audition, Berklee brought out various students both past and present to play so the parents could see what this school had to offer for $60.000.00 per year. The first was a recent graduate who played a few songs acoustically and talked about his experience as a "songwriting major." He clearly loved his experience at Berklee and boasted about working with people who "wrote with Allison Krause." After he played he took questions. After a few parents asked the customary and worthless "have you been signed?", I asked him if he was supporting himself playing music? He said he was getting a few good gigs here and there. I asked the same question again. He said that he was living with his parents trying to make a go of it. I asked a "go of what?". He really had no answer and clearly had no idea what he was going to do. I asked him if both he and his parents thought the investment of $250,000.00 was worth it? He said "yeah because I got to work with incredible people and took a mastering class with a very famous person who could maybe help him." Huh?
The school was getting irritated with my questions and asked me to a private meeting since they really wanted Jacob to attend. I then talked to the administration of the school and asked all of them the same questions. What is my son going to do once he leaves here as a songwriting major? Believe it or not....they could not give me a cohesive answer. They talked about John Mayer quite a bit and I asked them to give me some other recent examples of their success......they told me "not too much success lately but quite a bit in the past." I told them the music world has changed a lot since John left and how are their students succeeding now? They did tell me that they had some good success with students who majored in technical areas like engineering. I finally asked them how many students start here and graduate and the answer was less than 35%.
My son also applied to the Frost School of Music in Miami and it was basically the same thing there. I will admit that Miami put a little more emphasis on the reading, writing and arithmetic gig, but again I felt that so many kids go to these "contemporary music schools" and come away with very little for the exorbitant cost. I thought to myself that I could probably hire frickin Neil Young to write with my kid for less than $250,000.00. And after much thought, darn it, that is what I did. Not with Neil but with another fantastic songwriter (from Woodstock) who is older, mature, wrote some famous songs, is a great person and would be a fantastic mentor for Jacob. After many phone calls and sending him a lot of Jacob's songs, he agreed to meet with us. We went to Woodstock, had a great meeting and he agreed to work with Jacob. He taught my son so much about writing, the process, the business, his experiences and everything that he did right...and wrong. Jacob had a blast spending time with this writer and a wonderful experience spending time in Woodstock. The songs that they wrote together are incredible. The rest of his story is yet to be written, but he now has a manager from Nashville and hopefully you will be hearing some of this music in the near future.
Just like the music business today, I think the old way of thinking (mostly Berklee but the others as well) in regards to contemporary music education does not work anymore. I believe that parents are just so thrilled that their kid passes the audition and gets into prestigious schools like Berklee, Frost or USC that they turn them over to the school, hope for the best and are sure their kid is the next John Mayer. Not likely.
Regards,
_________
Bob, if you decide to print this please do not print my last name, location or phone number since I do not want to be piss off Berklee any more than I already have. Thanks
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Bob,
We need to be very very careful here not to confuse the natural mutually dependent evolution of music styles and tech, with the idea that there something unusually unfair about this era. In other words, is this a real issue or a bunch of old farts bemoaning change. Which is it? I don't know but I will tell you that I know a number of young DJs making real money who are not stars and likely never will be. They just might be the modern version of musicians living in the cracks.
This sounds a bit like string and horn players complaining about overdubbing and rock putting them out of business. Or sax players complaining about guitars. Drummers fearing the drum machine, etc. And, tell me - when has a Berkley grad EVER been able to make money from their instrument if they didn't end up either a teacher or rock star?
Nobody has an inalienable right to make a living with their instrument or copyrights. What they should have is an inalienable right to their fair share of the economic pie if
a. Lots of people like what they do
and
b. Revenue is created - authorized or not
If there is no audience, and no one making money from their talent (including pirates), then by definition it's a hobby.
(a publisher)
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