Re-Vinyl

I told you so!!!!!!!!!

Seymour Stein

_________________________________________

I watched the Dolls scene but not the rest of it, just couldn't. Mercer Arts is portrayed as a dirty dive when in fact it was pretty upscale. The main area
had a modernish bar which was surrounded by small shops and boutique stalls. There is a story that circulates that Dietrich accompanied by Bobby Short
attended a Dolls concert there. Yeah they might have been slumming but not THAT much.

Chris Stein

_________________________________________

bob;
very good.
loved the bob marcucci/brian epstein point.
in addition, as richard hell has stated elsewhere, they got the coke wrong....

Andrew Loog Oldham

_________________________________________

A-fucken- MEN
nick….
what a pleasure to read this…. i was thinking, are we the only two people who think that this is total bullshit?? or…. just done soooo badly it earns the title "bullshit"
to try and put this across like it's "the way it was" is so insulting and inaccurate, it's absurd.
AND…thank you Bob…. i'm no historian, but aside from the musical insults all through this script, and all the points you hit on,
when they said the thing about lyme disease, i was sitting thinking, wait a minute, that didn't even happen yet!!!!!
the only part that seemed like something, was when they did in dice's character Buck Rogers, a fictional character supposed to be being killed by Joe Corso, a real person,
…that, at least, felt like a Scorsese movie..
but nowhere else in that 2 hours, did i feel i was being shown anything that was true or important.
and music is both true and very important.
again, thank you Bob
A-fucken-MEN

waddy wachtel

_________________________________________

The ratings were weak and yet HBO just renewed it. I don't get it. The Mercer Arts Center collapsing during a Dolls performance should have been a vision, but it's shown as reality, which of course Cannavale's character walks away unscathed from. And as you said, there was no mania in the streets, no jumping on cars to rush a gig. Ridiculous.

Dick Wingate

_________________________________________

Stunningly lame! Casting, writing, nauseously shallow stereotypes, on and on... WTF?

Mike Greene

_________________________________________

NAIL IT, bob!!
touche, AGAIN!!

Wayne Forte

_________________________________________

You are so right. I ran Apple for a couple of years and lived it. I turned off the show halfway thru. BORING !!!

Allan Steckler

_________________________________________

My favorite boners are the attempts to replicate clothing and hairstyles and shoot in some haphazard "Scorsese/hip" look.
The only places that had this kind of vibe were the great west Hollywood gay dance emporiums of the early 80's.
Only thing period stranger is this "Aquarius/Manson" thing on the tube now. Charlie with a British accent no less! Oh yeah, that and Travolta as Shipiro.
All this and the music remains.
Vinyl indeed.
Charles Haid

_________________________________________

Clunky is right; mildly interesting from a nostalgic standpoint. But the Lyme disease was only the beginning when it came to accuracy: A cell phone that has a dial tone? Chobani yogurt in the convenience store from 197-something? Just amazingly sloppy. Six months of build-up, two hours of let-down.

Ted Doyle

_________________________________________

Many of us worked in records during that decade. There's plenty of technical advisors available - heck, the producers could have put out a call to your audience!

Like hiring retired military to advise on war pictures.

Jim Charne

_________________________________________

Hey Bob. Is this Mean Streets or Taxi Driver? Certainly not. However, if think this show was made for very late middle aged bald guys who attend insider music biz circle jerks, think again. Your quote is apt, "Stick to music."

Ritchie Gold

_________________________________________

Thank you as ALWAYS!!!!!

marc brickman

_________________________________________

Thumbs up!

Val Garay

_________________________________________

Thank you Bob. I thought I was going crazy especially when I saw the scene with the blonde A & R assistant go into a club with a BACKPACK! In the 70's, the only time I saw anyone with a backpack was in the woods camping and it had those metal bars running through it for support. What a disappointing TV premier.

David E. Parker

_________________________________________

Great insight! As someone who lived thru some of the greatest times in the music biz-I have to laugh at Vinyl but always have to keep reminding myself it's a fuckin dramatized TV show for ENTERTAINMENT!! If one more person emails or calls me and asks me if I saw the show and what did I think and was it really like that I'm gonna puke!! Enjoy it the program the same way you would enjoy watching the Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire-it is rock'n'roll eye candy!! Love the flashbacks!

Harvey Leeds

_________________________________________

Checked into my hotel room last night, flipping through TV channels, landed on "Vinyl" (first time ever seeing it). It was a scene where some record company guy was scoring some cocaine. The over-acting as he chopped his lines and then snorted it was unwatchable. I couldn't change channels fast enough.

Damon Johnson

_________________________________________

Bob,

Could not agree more. I kept waiting for it to get good, and it just... didn't.

What a disappointment.

Andrew Beck

_________________________________________

I agree with you on Vinyl and don't intend viewing more. I thought the same thing about the Peter Grant actor. The record exec/company seems to be based on Neil Bogart. Notice that the character doesn't show that he likes the music. Mick's son's band was too punk for 1973.

Harold Bronson

_________________________________________

I couldn't agree more. My wife and I watched this and she kept saying, I don't understand what's happening in this. And about halfway in she says, how long is this? So I paused and she says, wow, I thought we'd been watching this a lot longer than that. I'm not sure why we pushed through to the end. Maybe we were hoping it would make sense at some point. It made two hours seem like a long day at the office.

Dean Temple

_________________________________________

hey Bob,

you couldn't be more spot on about this. who in their right mind puts the most famous people from our collective consciousness like Bowie, Plant & Warhol in a TV show? the male characters are predictable & unlikeable, the women are beyond vapid & after spending two hours watching I realized that I don't care what happens to any of them.

the whole thing feels like a vehicle for Jagger's 30 year old son to get out of bed & I agree that HBO drooled over the Jagger/ Scorsese marquee billing. I feel like that time in NYC was so special & all this show is doing is gentrifying the musical memories of this incredible city for Middle America with just enough manufactured sin to keep the Evangelicals & Catholics turned on around the water cooler come Monday morning.

In the end, I'm not entirely sure who this show is for but I'm certainly not sticking around to find out.

writing from a very chilly Brooklyn, NY.

- Tommie Sunshine

_________________________________________

I lived this era and talent/management and I watched vinyl for the first time this week. I wore a shocked expression till I finally turned it off!
The way Bobby Cannavale even did a line of cocaine was hysterical.
I could do a much better job of content and directing and that being said .... Oye!
I loved the mid 70's era of musician struggle.

Pam Barnes

_________________________________________

I'm not sure who Vinyl's market is. I'm guessing they aren't sure either.

Empire succeeds because they know their market. It's over the top, drama infused, and fashion forward because that's the reality show generation they are going after. And getting! I work in the real urban music industry. I don't like Empire. But it's doing exactly what it was made to do: attract eyeballs, sell product, and make the producers richer.

Wendy Day

_________________________________________

Bob
it is fiction and sold as that.

Marty is brilliant and has a few musician friends too.
the real music business lived behind closed doors and
we only saw a little of it.

The music business was mostly run by Jews and Italians.

The real problems started when Wall Street got involved.

I know characters much like Bobby Cannavale.

you are too fast to judge it

Elliot Mazer

_________________________________________

Zactly!
It was not on the one.
Not happening.
I had a hard time watching it all the way thru.
Don Mizell

_________________________________________

Have you considered that you might be a little close to this? For 'real' ppl outside of the industry this is great. Agree it's a little glossy in places and too mythical and whoever cast Robert Plant as a man incapable of doing a British accent should be fired but as a show its good so far... It's too early to have such a strong opinion perhaps?

Nick New

_________________________________________

I had high hopes for Vinyl because of its creators, and I really enjoyed Boardwalk Empire and its debut episode.I went into it knowing only that Jagger's (30 year old!) son was a lead. Minutes into it I was thinking the guy in the car was a young Andrew Dice Clay. I then saw Ray Romano and decided to Google the cast. It was Ray Romano and he was very good as was Mr. Dice Clay, Mr.Cannavale, and lots of other actors in a script that was fine for setting up future scenarios. Not bad, but far from the team's finest hour.

Michael Tomasek

_________________________________________

No kidding, you don't like it, I'm for sure watching my DVR'd episodes.

Hank Arnold

_________________________________________

Right on…I lasted about 20 minutes.

Kevin Teare

_________________________________________

The promos didn't even look that strong. Scorsese is absolutely obsessed with taking every gratuitous (unnecessary) violence scene one-too-many-bloodspirts too far. Obsessed.

Agree 100% on the Robt Plant character. Awful.

Cannavale tries, I'm sure. Seems even self-assured. But yeah, his face screams bit/character part.

I watched the 1st epi on a tinny motel Tv (long story) and will rectify that Sunday. Giving it one more chance.

But, yeah, Marty is running out of 2nd chances.

Brian Mitchell
Kennett, MO

_________________________________________

Unfortunately for TV, you nailed it. In the business, Nashville disappointed and Empire just never started. I had high hopes for Vinyl.

Oh well Better Call Saul is on the dvr.

Scott Crompton

_________________________________________

Maybe "Vinyl" can be nominated for "Best Comedy" at the Emmys this year. I
certainly laughed through most of it. Hey, if "The Martian" can be nominated
for a Golden Globe in the "Best Comedy" category, why is this so far fetched?

Tom Ennis

_________________________________________

Kind of like Jeff Wald's FM, which failed badly at capturing the whole FM free form era. But at least the first 10 minutes of the morning guy racing to get to the station in time for his shift while the Steely Dan title song is driving the scene was pretty good, but then it died.

Cannavale can't roll a Benjamin properly?, the envelope of cash to a hippie DJ, the kids running over parked cars. Yuck. When you go the faithful recreation route, you'd better get your details right. I lasted 40 minutes. Marty is old and Mick can't remember what really happened, plus he went to the head of the class pretty quickly and that's a different world.

John Brodey

_________________________________________

Watched it last night and thought it was ridiculous. I saw The Dolls at Mercer and opened for the Ramones, and these eras seemed so morphed, I was lost in time. I couldn't nail down if it was supposed to be the 60's, 70's or 80's? Birth of punk and soul and Zep all at the same time? What drug were the producers doing to create this flashback of a mess?

Kate Fagan Burgun

_________________________________________

Spot on. Could not agree more. What a disappointment. A disaster.

Cinzia Zanetti

_________________________________________

Thanks Bob, That shot of kids running to the Dolls show said it all for me. Uh uh, I'm not watching this bullshit. Kids didn't run anywhere. That wasn't cool. And nobody seems cool in this show. Remember cool? It was the opposite of fool. If anything kids were trying to just stand up and walk without falling down. You know, be cool,be cool.

Owen

_________________________________________

Hey Bob,

I know these feelings well, and I analyze them a boatload. I believe that what we saw in our youth is different than what our parents and adults saw. I guess its 3 sides to every story. It could've been craziness but not in your eyes. Who was the cast in this? I prepped someone in the studio who was up for this and an Oprah movie. Kind of cool when someone comes into my studio and says mick jagger called them!!

Marc Amendola

_________________________________________

Thanks as always for nailing truth to the wall -- "VInyl" may get better in the future, but I won't be watching. "WKRP in Cincinatti" remains the only show to get even parts of the music industry right.

HBO should have just optioned the Will Hermes book, where the narrative structure is already in place for what would have been much more compelling:

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Goes-Buildings-Fire-Changed/dp/0374533547

But alas, that narrative structure has black and gay people in prominent roles, so no dice.

Eric H8

_________________________________________

Thank you for this. Ever since I saw the promos I had no idea who this was supposed to appeal to. And calling it 'Vinyl' like some kind of spurious attempt to reign in the remaining music buying public. If you want authenticity, let me recommend spending a couple hours watching "We Are The Best", a fictional account of three girls starting a punk rock band in 1980s Sweden. This movie rules.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2364975/
Cheers
Brendan Dangelo

_________________________________________

Your revue was absolutely accurate. What a piece of crap. These two should have watched a couple of episodes of Mad Men before making this......whatever this is. You know it's not very good when you don't give a crap about any of the characters. Can't see it making it past episode one. Too bad. It had the promise of a great show.

Brian Corless

_________________________________________

You are out of touch!

David Kiswiney

_________________________________________

How bad could this show be ??

IT SUCKS

And it won't get better after that lame intro episode

Joe Vitka

_________________________________________

through the first episode. So disappointing.

Tamra Grace Leina'ala Castor

_________________________________________

F Ray Romano! otherwise you nailed it as usual Bob.

Thanks

Ray D'Ariano

_________________________________________

You are
Outspoken
Judgemental
Opinionated
and Correct

Sad to see this huge labor of love and commerce be so lame and Marty, do you really have to go and bring in the mafia beatings and killings? If you were a musician, you'd be Kenny G.
I lived through this time as a kid record producer and for regular network fare, this could work, but that's not a compliment. On HBO, it looks like amateurs or formula network show runners were at the helm.
So much wrong, so little right.

(Please withhold my name, as I still work in tv and film!)

_________________________________________

Phew!!!
I was like WTF is up with the old "Charlie's Angles Rotary Cell Phones"!? :)

My wife, who is 28, was like "did they have those back then?" I said "I've only seen those on cheesy tv shows!"

I loved Dice as the radio station owner.

The muscle dude that was trying to convince Dice reminded me of my friend Peter Bennett. He's gone now but man he was such a whacked out promoter dude. Loved him to death!

Best,

James Lucente

_________________________________________

All that money, all that hype… and they couldn't pay to license real Led Zep tunes?

Hearing them open the live show with a lame cover, then mock-up a Zeppelin song for the second tune was cringe-worthy, and shows a level of cheapness that is not in line with the oodles of cash thrown at the rest of the production.

The Plant character was too effeminate, I agree - Robert Plant was a GOD, with thick lions-mane hair and cocky strut not seen before or since. They got John Bonham right but Peter Grant in real life was a hulking, pugilistic TERROR. The actor portraying him tried - close, but no cigar.

I thought having Mick Jagger attached would ensure a realistic portrayal of the era. But like Gaga trying to get Bowie right at the Grammy's, he failed miserably.

-Gil Griffith

_________________________________________

I found myself fascinated by the scenery but had to restart it like 4-5 times because it was so manic and all over the place.

Jason Hirschhorn

_________________________________________

I was screaming at the TV for 2 straight hours! Awful!
So disappointed!

But I loved Dice playing the Jerk-Off Program Director!

You nailed it Bob!

Terry Anzaldo

_________________________________________

The tell that it wasn't going to be good was the radio ads on streaming music services that hyped the show and then ended with: "Soundtrack available on Warner Records".

They want me to buy a soundtrack of songs from a T. V. show that are already free on the streaming service I'm listening too?

In 2016?

Also, can we stop with the meme that all posters of seventies rock whatever shows/movies have to have a picture of a character with mirrored sunglasses?

Peter Hollander

_________________________________________

I here you Bob. But maybe we are critical and a little too close to it because we lived it. Remember it's just entertainment. Like you said, I'm sure real wise guys probably cringed at Goodfellas and The Sopranos for inaccuracies but the new generation didn't care. Let's see what Marty and Mick come up with on the next couple episodes and see if this settles in with the viewing audience. I thought Andrew Dice Clay's portrayal of Buck Rogers was not so far off from what I remember about crazy people back then. Actually gave me the creeps and people like creepy and zombies so like when everyone hated Howard Stern at the beginning of his career, "let's see what happens next!"

Kenny Lee Lewis

_________________________________________

I could not agree more about this waste of time ...
I grew up in the village around my father, original Tarzan illustrator, Burne Hogarth
who founded the School of Visual Arts on 3rd and 23rd,
So as a city rat in the 70's, part of the punk rock scene and art scene,
I know of what I speak.

This show is completely unwatchable. Just total dreck ...
and yes totally miscast ..
Like a bad joke … if not for the terrible acting, horrible writing, poorly placed music, unbelievable script and painfully awkward cinematography
this show might still have a chance …..
Its just ALL wrong ..
Even trying to cast Zep manager Peter Grant … he was a huge man with a huge presence and he is cast as a little angry english haberdasher ..
UGGH …so much hype and it's just totally awful and makes one so UNCOMFORTABLE to watch .. I actually started to feel physically sick ..

now back to some reruns of the Sopranos to get this taste of bile out of my mouth

sincerely
Ross Hogarth

_________________________________________

Oh Bob....of course you hate Vinyl. If it's not some ode to the SoCal music scene or pseudo-country BS, so you hate it....and that's OK, it's apparently not made for you or anyone who can't appreciate that scene. You're more Fleetwood Mac than Ramones...and that's alright.

I've been in radio promotion for a lot of years, Bob and I'm a native Upstate NY'er who enjoyed going to the City as a teen to see my favorite bands (Dolls included, but never at the MAC, it caved in well before I was making trips down the Hudson) and I'm going to tell you that I enjoyed the first episode of the highly fictionalized show. I guess the difference is that I KNOW it's fictionalized and I believe that the directors, producers and writer are all well aware of it too.

It most certainly is an amped up make-believe version of the NYC music scene and the biz in the early 70's. I don't think they were going for authenticity. Both Scorcese & Winter know that the kids didn't race to the MAC for Dolls shows, but I'm sure that David Jo & Syl appreciate the notion. But I think they're plying good story-telling with small bits of truth. Bobby Cannavale plays off of some of the label heads of eras gone-by in ethnicity and bombast, you know, like Tommy Mottola, Walter Yetnikoff and Neil Bogart. The side story of the selling of the label to a German company (i.e. BMG) and the label burying returns or over-selling their chances to land a HUGE act, all ring somewhat "true" by story-telling standards to me.

Otherwise, I'd be crazy to think that in all my years as a promo man, I've never killed a station owner or even a program director...not saying I never WANTED to, but it's never happened. But one thing I'm absolutely certain is complete bullshit....No promo guy ever plied a radio programmer with cash and cocaine, not then, not now and not ever.... ;-)

Bob Reeves
Nashville, TN

_________________________________________

Thanks for your opinion on Vinyl. My husband and I are "49ers" and after watching 15 minutes of this anticipated show we looked at each other and said, "Who wrote this crap!?"

For a few minutes we reflected back on some great memories and decided that some "80's youngsters" without a clue had to have done it. "You can't fool us Martin & Mick, we were there, and we were cool."

With great disappointment we changed the channel. Thanks for backing us up Bob!

Karen Watters

_________________________________________

Dreck

Howard Glynn

_________________________________________

I'm hoping it is just the pilot and it gets better. Funny how you and I both caught the Lyme disease fuck up.

Jim Lewi

_________________________________________

I'm watching for Olivia Wilde.
But that's just me :) x

Lonn Friend

_________________________________________

It's funny, I'm not old enough to have been at Mercer Arts Centre, but I know my music history, especially as concerns NYC - and that whole scene was ridiculous in the bad way.
The faux New York Dolls was probably the best casting choice tho'...

pschase

_________________________________________

Amen. Two hours I'll never get back.

Kevin T. Browning

_________________________________________

I don't know what show you were watching. I didn't find vinyl bad at all. Give it a few episodes and then report back. I usually give a show three episodes after the premiere.

Sean Mormelo

_________________________________________

Jagger has flopped repeatedly in the filmed visual mediums. His is a live stage talent. Drama, he isn't steeled for it, unless he is in total control.

Take away that control and he is left crying when he was jailed after Redlands. And look at how lost he is in Gimme Shelter footage - when he realizes he is in over his head. Of all the people on stage at Altamont, Mick is the most reduced by the circumstances.

So it doesn't surprise that in his producer roles, the scene setting is way over the top and reeking of inauthenticity. That's who he likely is all around

Denisara

_________________________________________

Disagree, Bob. Loved Vinyl. Can't wait for Ep. 2. I'm not sure it's meant to be a documentary. More like historical fiction. Not watching to learn about the music business in the 70's.

David Rubin

_________________________________________

Call me a sucker, but I watched it by going in essentially blind ... I didn't read a ton of hype, I just wanted to see the show. And the pilot lured me in, even though there's always the risk they'll lose me if the remainder of the show doesn't hit. I take pilots as a tough, but different, beast from your typical episode. They have to set the scene while building a premise for the entire run of a show. So I refuse to judge a show by mistakes made in the first episode. And I applaud HBO for committing to a second season, which at least leaves room for them to improve on mistakes in the first. And as someone who is tired of seeing shows killed by poor ratings in one or two episodes, I always appreciate a network like HBO being willing to let viewers vote with their eyes and their money. I'll subscribe to watch Vinyl. At least it's not Arli$$.

Jonathan Sanders

_________________________________________

Wow, Thanks Bob. And I thought I was the only one who thought the show was lame. They lost me in the first few minutes with the car phone and the reference to an 8 ball. In 1973?? I did not hear that term in relation to cocaine until the late 90's. (We bought grams) and not until the late 70's. Casting was bad and the hype was way over the top. And if you are doing a show about the music industry in the early 70's why bring in the whole sub plot about the murder? It shifts the dramatic focus completely away from the times and the music. I just didn't get it. (But it was kind of nice to see Dice buy it!)

Rob Penland, Producer

_________________________________________

One of the most realistic reincarnations of the 1970s music scene I've ever seen is a brief moment in "Almost Famous" that shows Kate Hudson's character blithely dancing by herself on the floor of an auditorium after the show. It so perfectly captures the feel of those ballrooms as to be palpable. I was hoping this show would reach that height.

hyperbolium

_________________________________________

I hated it. Lead character not believable or likeable or interesting. Still, when you are one of us and you lived for and loved the music the references are fun. I will watch once more.

Michael A. Becker

_________________________________________

Agree. Agree. Agree. Agree. With everything.

Such drek! No more 'Vinyl" for me.

Trace Ordiway

_________________________________________

OMG! Horrifyingly bad. Yikes.

They got it so wrong on so many levels it's simply astonishing.

And the worst part is that it was stultifyingly boring!

Upside is one less TV show I have to follow.

Yikes again.

Greg Prestopino

_________________________________________

I love it when you articulate the thoughts going through the back of my head but just don't surface as a fully formed opinion.

Thanks Bob.

-Mike McCready

_________________________________________

As for Bob Lefsetz...

Stick to music commentary!

Julian Muia

_________________________________________

wow

long time reader, first time writer

this is finally the newsletter to get a reply

You sound old and out of touch, not Scorsese, Jagger and Winter.

This is a pilot! a PILOT! Not a real first episode. A 2 hour test.
It was created in a silo to achieve a couple particular things.

If you agree by Episode 4 it is bad still, I will abide - but we need to see what the REAL showrunners have set for this, as they were not involved in the pilot and the already picked up season 2. Scorsese now bows out - and Terence Winter who was behind 'Boardwalk Empire' takes over.

I am also a bit shocked- that you - a loyal Stern fan, didn't call out the best performance of the show, Andrew Dice Clay as the Radio man, Buck Rogers

It has nowhere to go but up.

pferioli

_________________________________________

You nailed it again. I tried really hard to like the show, I desperately wanted it to be amazing. What the hell was with those cut-scenes? The scene with the black woman singing and playing the tambourine, what the fuck!? Just trying to get as much music in as possible I guess. We also don't need a full song from the fake New York Dolls truly we do not. I could go on but you already summed it up.

Thanks as always for your thoughts.

Bob Daniel

_________________________________________

Bob ; You're missing the point. It's just a good story with some great music and interesting characters. Joe Whiting

Forget Bernie, you're the truth sayer! Thanks, Bob.

Mike Parish

_________________________________________

OK, so at least now I don't need to feel beholden to watch yet another TV show I'll have no time for.

John Hughes

_________________________________________

And the funniest thing. The OST will only be released on CD, not vinyl ;)

Kind regards
Runar @Universal Norway




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