Re-Why Rock Died

Hi Bob , I am afraid you missed the one main reason rock died ... Technology has ALWAYS led the art form, from the early days of electric guitars allowing drummers to play loud to the bass end you can only get nowadays from computers. Rock is just not an art form you can make on a laptop ...

Steve Lillywhite



Dear Bob

So, so true which is why classic (read artists that have been around for 40+ years) are so valuable.

All we are are great big loud touring Las Vegas "lounge acts" (making "tons o dough" to retire on) and any classic artist that really, somehow, foolishly thinks any differently is astounding to me.

But, if it makes my contemporaries feel any better, remember that Mad Magazine spoofed aging pop artists 40 years who.

Nothing really has changed. Music was always bought by the young. That aint news.

I dont care how many Schools of Rock exist or that I get emails from my 50 year old fans who tell me that "my kid and all his friends love Led Zeppelin"....

Sure they do....

It Doesnt matter.

Its over.

Repeat

It doesnt matter.

Its over.....

John French



I went to see a friend of mine who lives here on a lake (right outside of Nashville). I haven't been to a lake in years. We went for a ride on his boat. Kids were out flying around on Seadoos, being pulled behind speedboats on inner tubes....but no one was water skiing. He said it's rare to see anyone water skiing these days, only an old guy every now and then. In order to water ski you have to take the time to learn that skill. Not tough---but it does require some perseverance and practice. The same with GUITARS. Why is rock dying? We've lost our patience, wanna have it happen in a second, can't wait long enough to read a whole book or learn four chords or ........you've said all of this before. But unlike the hope that you express in your letter here, I don't know if we will ever get to another era where kids will again take the time to craft a melody, learn an instrument, write a lyric, or even just jump in a lake and figure out how to water ski.

Wally Wilson
Skyville Live



When I decided at the last minute not to go see Steve Miller and Peter
Frampton, Midnight Oil and Lindsay Buckingham and Christine McVie, my
friend said it best, "how good can it be." So I continue checking the
calendar and mark it accordingly when the legends of rock come to my
town and, as has been the case recently, I decide not to go at the
last minute. I used to live for concerts but now they're sterile and
policed and well...how good can it be? I know I'm missing good shows
but I want a great show and I'm just not convinced my rock heroes put
on great shows anymore. Am I wrong?

Jeff Sacks



From my experience as an engineer and producer (which is where most failed
major label artists go to die) bands and artists are fucking lazy these
days. The number one most repeated phrase I heard while working in the
studio had to be "you can fix that later right?" I'm not just talking
about nobodies, I've worked tirelessly day and night for literally weeks
just auto tuning vocals and running beat detective on drums for artists
that were signed to credible labels, some were even internationally known
acts. One band in particular that was signed to a label owned by James Iha
had a singer that consistently sang between half a step to as much as a
step and a half off the melody on every song. I spent weeks in a room
huddled over a computer and when I was done the vocals were a masterpiece,
no one outside of the production team and their manager ever knew auto
tune had ever touched these vocals, they sounded completely natural. I
should have won a grammy for best auto tuned vocals ever LOL. The problem
with rock dying and music as a whole not being all that innovative these
days is digital recording. Look I'm a tech junkie, I am not looking to go
backwards in time, I?m not a luddite but until Bands and artists stop
using Pro Tools as their drug of choice there isn't going to be the kind
of ground breaking material that came out of the pre digital recording
era. Just like my dad used to say success is 90% perspiration and 10%
inspiration.

Kind Regards,

Mikael Johnston
Producer - Engineer - Remixer



I posted the WaPo Guitar Death article the other day and man did I get some blowback. I saw the article more from a music retailer "numbers don't lie" perspective but man everybody was crying and wailing like they just got the news they had some horrible disease.

Yes there still good players out there and some child prodigies coming up but like you said, form and content? Where is it? Without a good song and some poignant lyrics, it's just pablum.

Also our rhythm section all went to go see Hired Gun tonight here near D.C. They talk about what it's like in the arena rock business today and what is expected. Only a handful of cats are able to stay working. We are touring with Frampton this summer and the package is great. We are selling out. But in looking at some the folks coming to the show last night, some of them are having trouble just getting from the parking lot to the ticket booth and they aren't high either! This phenom is winding down for sure. I can't last forever.

Time for a new paradigm, a new formula, and a fresh message. Youngsters it's up to you now. Me? I'm going fishin'! Did you all see Clapton's salmon he caught in Iceland?!

Kenny Lee Lewis-
Steve Miller Band



Hey Bob,

I just saw Stevie Guitar Miller and Frampton on an early segment of their new tour. It was at Bank of NH Pavilion Gilford NH, great sound & visuals.

They both still have it & they seemed to be having fun. Steve is right on his licks and Peter is too with a couple of duo blues jams that were hot!

Hot Tuna comes to Vermont again soon.

Rock is changing, get it while you can!

Jim Eaton- VT Skier



Nice topic!

This is something a musical collaborator and I have been talking about recently. It's frustrating not being able to make a dent playing rock music, which is what got us both into making music. It's also frustrating, as a fan of rock, that there really is not anyone pushing any boundaries. It is all legacy acts or recycled sounds.

To comment on a vein of rock music that I have listened to intently most of my critically cognitive years: my friend and I went to Warped Tour last year and I was absolutely blown away that none of the new, younger bands had anything different to offer than what was being offered 10 years ago. It is very non-punk to not progress sonically, especially over the same number of years as a decade. I cannot recall another time when punk had faltered as much as it has. I do believe there are some very cool punk bands that are active right now doing progressive things, but there is no scene anymore. Things have moved around some, but there are no emerging collectives and no watch as we have known.

It is possible for punk to exist without a scene, for example, as you mention, jazz did not evaporate; but, when you don't have a centrifuge, much like what has happened to jazz, it becomes a sound people will use in their arrangements, but is no longer a vibrant style of making new music.

I think is possible for the 2020s to make a comeback in rock, or at least within the context of a live instrument/live performance driven sound, if enough of the right pieces were fit together in the right way (i.e. The Soulquarians' impact on soul and hip hop).

- Brandon Watson



Give it up Bob. Music doesn't matter.

Bob Brookie



My tuppence:

1. Being good at guitar (or any instrument) takes time and practice. Is today's culture too immediate? Too focussed on instant gratification and instant fame? When one meets great artists; it becomes clear that there is really nothing else they could have done. in their teens they played and played. And found like minded folks. And played and played. Today - too much else going on. update status/ tweet / vlog / game etc etc

2.As an extension of that – my teenage years in 1980s were pretty boring. Playing in a band or at home for hours pretending I was Page, Hendrix, Knopfler or Neil Y or Andy Summers was great & exciting. What else was there to do if one was not a jock? Today there seem so many high-fructose corn syrup distractions that seem more exciting but distract folks (including me) away from the hard work required to be great. As we all now likely know - social media, actively tweeting or passively following, is a massive time suck. One could be practicing one's guitar.
3.
As for Fender and Gibson and sales – I find the used market is great. why buy new? I bought my son a great 1980s US made strat for less than an inferior spec'd new one. And it has real road wear not the fake 'stone washed' versions for $3000. Ditto for amps. Maybe Fender should have an 'official refurb' marketplace?

4. I think kids still do like to rock. Royal Blood did a great set here at Glastonbury for example that had millennials jumping around. Ditto for Ed Sheeran. You may not like him; but Ed Sheeran had my daughter pick up a guitar as did Tay-tay. Neither of us unf are any good at the looper pedal FWIW.

Yours,

Peter Mercier



What I appreciate (a lot) about the hip hop/rap scene is the endless collaborating. Artists appear everywhere and everywhere, never mind on remixes of tracks. It gives "new" life to even new songs!

I'm not sure rock lends itself to such things. But I wish it did. E.g. Metallica frontman James Hetfield on a Slipknot track. Or Slayer guitarist contributing to a Metallica track. You name it. The possibilities are endless. But I fear that with rock/metal that musicians are far too wrapped up in their own bands' identity.

Plus all that you mentioned. Ha!

Robert Cotter



I'd also add that rock died when 25 min of every hour of radio is the same commercials over and over again. Eat a dick Geico. By the time Sirius / XM commercial free rolled around it was too late to break new Artists on the larger scale that commercial rock radio could. Country held on until Sirius could get enough scale for the Highway to be a tastemaker.

Dan Millen



Rock died with the end of competitive local radio stations. Ended with the deaths of the likes of Rick Sklar and Bill Graham.

Debra Grobman


I still hate The Eagles and Journey.
And Disco still sucks ;radio is responsible
For rock lurking in the shadows but it's still a mighty
large shadow
Jimi LaLumia



Down at the Astoria the scene was changing.....please tell me something that has not been said before.

Ty Velde



Widespread Panic, Gov't Mule, Drive By Truckers. Rock isn't dead.

Erich Ziegler



I agree with everything you said...M




So true, so sad, so insightful. Time moves forward and I for one am excited to see what comes next. Just hope I'm not too set in my ways to appreciate it. I'm waiting.

Rob Guffre



Rock didn't die. The critics, like you, just convinced enough people it did. Either way I respect your opinion.

Cheers,
Art Tavana




U need to listen to the "Record
Company" rock band

Judy LaVigne



The Rock died? RIP The Rock!!!

James K



Girls like to shake their ass... And show their tits... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6OJp1lIAAASd-Y.jpg

... why EDM is still drawing at dance clubs. The evolution of disco...

Music of any type is usually just background for the human mating ritual... all it ever was.

Since days of early civilization...

WAM



Read "Meet Me In The Bathroom - Rebirth of Rock and Roll in New York City 2001-2011" by Lizzy Goodman.

Ryan Starks



Obligatory new album suggestion.

https://open.spotify.com/album/5UWEPNU1vVbtxCBvI0ptOW

I don't know if this would pique your interest. New 311 album. Released last week.

Full of harmonies, nice guitar riffs. Not associated with the band but I'm a massive fan of them and this is the best album they've had since they last had a radio hit about 15-20 years ago.

Still hoping for a Renaissance of guitars.

Mark Hinkley



Curious as to where you would put Wilco?
And while Spotify is great for 'having it all', they are no better than Lee Abrams vis a viv their playlists. The 'rock' is just as Corp at PLJ was back in the day.
Sure, the public gets what the public wants, but someone is already steering the ship and Spotify is steering it away from guitar based rock.
I have three teens, so I get it. But...
Alan Katz



I like your blog .. but I respectfully disagree.. we live in a world dominated by celebrities and obsess about their every movement.. thanks to technology.. which enforces pop/rap/z100 as winning brands . There is very little out of the box thinking.. including your blog on this .. in terms of what great rock bands are these days .. I can see unbelievable talent at an average of $50/ticket (as an aside I loved U2 in the 90s but I wouldn't pay the price of admission to see them in NJ ( even though I could afford it)

Here's a list of bands that may never sell to really" make it " but make my life calm and chill and better everyday because they are there .. and THAT means something.. even if they aren't on ET (and thank god for that)..

Fleet foxes
Deerhunter
Tame impala
Grizzly bear
Slowdive (new album)
The XX

Etc

Ciao
Jeff Mosk



Dear Bob,

I still hate Journey.
Love,
dale m mccoy



Nice writing Bob, keep it flowing, Not always 100% aligned with you, but a good Bob email works brilliantly, with a morning caffeine fix, to perk up the senses. Thanks!

Ashley Whitfield



"bridges" - the most important word in this email - A song isn't all it can be without a bridge.

Rami Ramirez



Rock was the perfect soundtrack and anthem to the apex of the American century. Every empire shall rise and fall.

Paul Koidis



Bob I love what you write. Sometimes. But rock never died. It just changed and stopped being about bitter old white guys.

I didn't even bother reading what you wrote...

Sam Taylor



I still hate Journey.

Schylar Shoates
Sky Studios
Brentwood, TN



What a great article ... one of your best.
Sad but so true.

Michael Parenti



bravo!

Jimmy Cypher



It will be back. Society will crave authenticity again once everyone can breathe.

Nick Lawson



Unfortunately... Truth.

mjalbro



Muse. They can play their asses off, they're smart, they're innovative, they're modern, they've put in the time. And maybe you'll say they're too old to be relevant, but they're selling out stadiums, with their damn guitars.

Beyond that, look to the loud stuff. Queens of the Stone Age, and Mastodon. Lotta kids following these dudes, with good reason.

Rock may be moving to the margins, but there will always be true believers. Ain't no visceral response like strings and an amp.

Daryl Shawn



I hate to admit it but you're right.
Burke Long



Geez...when I first saw the subject line, I thought that another musician had died. Just goes to show you how hypersensitive I am to that, as many of us have not made it this far.

Carolyne Mas

P.S. I could not agree with you more, by the way.



Great article Bob! I think another big problem is that everyone in the industry wishes rock would come back, but at the same time no one has the balls/money/time to invest and built a band these days..

Titus Winterstein



what a time to be alive
shit

Tom Twin


TWENTY ONE PILOTS !

Best Regards
Erling Johannessen
Head Of Catalogue Marketing
Warner Music Norway



"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was the last great Rock record. And that was 25 years ago.
It's been dead for quite awhile!
Best
Adam Blake



I agree rock is niche but it isn't dead, and the bands of n Nashville's Infinity Cat label have been proving that for 15 years. JEFF The Brotherhood, Diarrhea Planet, Music Band and now Daddy Issues are doing it with passion, humor, authenticity, musicality, undeniable talent and most of all originality 365 days a year in clubs and at festivals around the world. Not "metal", not "punk", these bands are just plain great Rock Bands.
Check out JEFF's "Wasted On The Dream" or DP's "Turning To Gold". Try Music Band's self-titled or Daddy Issues "Deep Dream". That's where rock is living now.
We'll be happy to send you the links (or the vinyl, of course!). We're proud of what we do and very happy to be exactly where we are 15 years in.
Best wishes,

Robert Ellis Orrall



One of the saddest posts I have read. I miss Mutt Lange.

Keith Michaels



Wise words as usual Bob. My 2cs' worth: The history of jazz also illustrates the conflict between the facile racket-makers who are however in touch with the street because they are just off it and and the virtuosos who are interested in music for its own sake -- in the case of jazz, Coltrane & Co. pushed experimentation to its limit, leaving tonality and the connection with standard songs and hence people's life experience behind.

With Country on the other hand, the music remains mostly pedestrian while the singer-songwriters are pushing the envelope or at least flying the flag for musical quality. Hip-hop has interesting social/political content and sounds but is often impossible to decipher with minimal melodic content. You never hear anyone humming any of it. Arguably it's just an extension of poetry and a return to oral tradition.

With Spotify the musical world is becoming like a Hindu temple -- a myriad niches vying for attention. DIY musical and literary culture is thriving but few artists are making money.

Paul Nash



I think you missed an important part of the rock cycle. As you pointed out when rock of the 70's morphed into corporate rock it gave rise to punk but the same thing also happened when rock re-emerged in the 80's but then again became corporate cookie cutter product. It gave rise to Kurt Cobain. Nirvana was clearly the embodiment of the punk ethos and a response to the sameness of music that the labels were putting out. We're again at the top of a cycle with music being cookie cutter but this time rock music is poised to be the disrupter with musicianship and songwriting breaking through against the button pushers, track makers, top liners and DJs.

Tag Gross



Where is the next Public Enemy or Jane's Addiction or any band with a frontman/woman who scares someone? It's all fucking IKEA.

Michael Alex




You're spot-on, Bob. The first nail got hammered into the coffin when consultants convinced radio management that 'listeners don't know what they like, they like what they know'. It was true of a % of listeners, but corporate radio's acceptance of it as a mantra made it true of a much larger %.

The second was labels losing patience with any act that did not break from the gate with immediate results. Fleetwood Mac, Journey, U2, ZZ Top, John Mellencamp,Steve Miller, Bob Seger, Tom Petty, Springsteen and so many others became major acts because labels stuck with them.

The eventual success of those same artists caused them to lose the creative drive that compelled them to produce great music.

At about the same time, a wave of angst driven, angry acts emerged that were alienating to many listeners.

Acts with the potential to become future mainstream mainstays imploded or just never developed into the kind of acts a song or two hinted they might.

Sad as I am that the prospects for a Rock renaissance are slim, the body of work produced during the prime decades remains remarkable.

Tom Starr
Program Director
92.7 The Drive

If you've seen Natural Child you'll know Rock is alive and well.

John Waycuilis



You pretty much hit the nail on the head, Bob.
I lived through it all and do not regret one minute of it.

Have an Insanely Great 4th.

ps,

June 27th was the anniversary of the closing of the Fillmore East in 1971.
Musically speaking, 3 of the best years of our lives.

Steve Isaacson



One of the best letters I've read in a while. Very true. The most talented and disciplined songwriters are not writing for rock acts right now. And today's country lyrics could not possibly be any more bland, formulaic and cliche. It seems rock bands today are so concerned with being hip, having "cred", or just coming up with cool riffs, that they are forgetting that it all starts with a great song. And great lyrics (and melodies, and maybe key change or at least a bridge) seem to be a lost art. There ARE some cool rock bands today, but don't ask me what most of their songs are actually ABOUT. Sure, John Lennon wrote "I Am The Walrus", but he also wrote "In My Life", "Help", "Imagine", and a TON more that are lyrical and melodic brilliance!!

People can say what they want about an artist like Bryan Adams, but he knew how to craft a great song over and over again, both lyrically and melodically, and deliver it with emotion and conviction. Is he reinventing or revolutionizing the genre? No. But most of his catalog can be sung worldwide, and he's still playing substantial venues 35+ years into his career. How many songwriters do we have like him in rock today??

Thx
Randy Scott



Rock didn't die. Rock stars did. And it wasn't a murder, or death from natural causes or even old age. It was a suicide. The press, the industry, and I would argue the artists themselves - whether of their own volition or at the direction of their reps - conspired to make themselves safe and easy to swallow. Reality TV and stadium ready, To drain every ounce of edge, offensiveness or provocation out of their music and themselves for a bigger piece of the pie. Understandable given the uncertain state of the biz these days. To be sure, this is an overstatement, A generality. But the thing about generalities is they are generally true. Exceptions may be found but they only serve to illustrate the larger point.

I spent a good part of yesterday afternoon talking box sets on the Sirius XM show Debatable. One question we kept coming back to is would kids today care at all about the kind of archival box sets many of us treasure so much. It remains an open question, not so much because these kids have grown up in a world of digital audio but because the kind of star power required to keep one curious and engaged over a long period of time, over an artists career, is largely absent from the music scene today. Will anyone be clamoring for those unreleased Katy Perry live shows or Selena Gomez b-sides? It's probably not even fair to ask.

I love Coldplay and Chris Martin, a true rock/pop star hybrid if ever there was one. An artist whose talent and instincts would make him a star in any era. But lets be honest, there is no danger there. Who does he have more in common with, 70s era Robert Plant and Mick Jagger or Justin Bieber? BUT, he gets the airplay the coverage and the accolades and thus the money and most importantly the fame. The rewards. so why change? He becomes the example. The paradigm. The lesson for the wannabes to learn and learn it they have. Where are The Strokes when you need them.

Michael Pagnotta


R&R 'died' because a lack of compelling new artists. It's as simple as that.

No different than jazz or classical or opera.

sofu_gan



Mainstream country IS desperate to rock but it never will. If I see one more male artist throw the metal sign while singing about " goin' fishin' with grandpa" I'll puke.

Mark Moffatt



HAHA Whoa! Great one today. The Journey part got me laughing...so true.

I keep thinking the next Nirvana is around the corner...or something better

ciao

Tres Sasser



It's not dead up here in Canada. July Talk/Arkells package sold 17,000 tickets at the Shed in under 48 hours, July Talk then announced 2 Massey Halls in Toronto immediately following that show last week. Both Massey Hall shows sold out immediately, and now we just added a 3rd which is well on its way to a sell out. The band has sold a combined 27,000 tickets in Toronto alone on this album cycle. Both July Talk and Arkells came up through the Canadian ranks, have a pulse in the US but nowhere near the profile they do in Canada. They're showing no signs of stopping up here. And they are very much rock 'n roll bands. Are they selling out stadiums? No. Are they keeping the rock alive? Absolutely.

Zaed Maqbool



This is a fucking fantastic timeline. I felt the mic drop several times and wanted to clap at the end.
Now I know how today's crap music got here.

You have the unique ability to see the past and present music landscape from 30k feet above and right up close. Sure you have worked in the business and still have friends on the inside. More than anything it is clear with this piece that your love for music runs deep. Anyone who cares about music, like in their soul, I can connect and admire.

I agree with your entire article and appreciate you sharing your perspective with me.

Wow, what a sappy letter.

Happy Birthday America, enjoy the weekend.

You rock.

Allyson Marino



Lots of hard truth here makes this your best column yet! Keep up the good work Bob!!

Regards,
Richard Honig



After 100 years of blues based music every idea that could be wrung out of the style has been done & done again for decades.
And people still like it, you still hear those things in hip hop today.
20 or so years into the popularity of both jazz & rock we saw musicians expand the boundaries of what had been commercial pop music. Be-bop in the 40's & progressive rock in the '70s.

Now, I'm old and no longer pay attention but hip hop has been popular for 30 some years. and I dont't see the same artistic expansion.

James Sadler



Some great stuff here. Something to add from my perspective. While there have been many benefits to technology and recording software, there have been negatives as well. Specifically, they've greatly changed and diminished human interaction which I believe hurts real creativity. Creativity thrives in community…….real face to face, human interaction; "iron sharpens iron" if you will. When songs are primarily written and recorded alone in front of a screen, something is lost.

Magic happens when humans get in a room, face to face, and create. Just my two cents.

Long live rock,
Blaine Barcus



The baseball walk-up songs are all either hip-hop or country. That says it all..

R. Emmett McAuliffe



You must have been chatting with John D. Kalodner!! :-)

Mary Jurey



Sure, well-crafted and innovative rock is no longer a part of popular, charting music.

But the SPIRIT of rock, it's ESSENCE, is someone plugging a guitar into an amp, cranking the shit out of it and simply feeling better.

Maybe it doesn't happen as much as it used to but THAT my friend, will never die.

Eric Franklin



We are awash in guitar heroes, who can't save us with a good song.

It's an epidemic.

But there are some folks doing some interesting things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvyNyFXHj4k
Queens of the Stone Age continue to be my favorite 'modern' rock band.

The sounds on these records are .... different. And Josh Homme intends it that way. Like Bowie, Homme's vocal range isn't the point.

It's the quality of his voice. It's him and no one else.

Bill Seipel



Thanks for another great reflection. Sadly I must agree with your conclusion. Disco and its progeny dominate popular music today. The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, King Crimson, Queen and others were giants, trying to create something artistic, not just entertaining. Sure, some of these bands when overboard some of the time but they were trying to do something new and make a statement.

Many people think that younger generations are just into easily consumable, superficial ear candy. I think that people will react if something truly good emerges. I am hoping for the equivalent of the "American New Wave" in movies (another such wave is also needed in Hollywood today).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy danceable music as well and I like to "shake it off" sometimes. I just crave more.

All the best,

Alberto Torres



Rock needs a new Desmond Child..He was the rock Max Martin...The 80s rockers weren't writing hit songs, so the rock PRODUCERS did what had to be done...

They brought in PRO writers..Bon Jovi would be selling shoes in Jersey, without Desmond Child's tunecraft...Aerosmith, Cher, Kiss , and many others, got a second act, thanks to outside writers..

Mutt Lange, Bob Ezrin, Iovine, etc. were the SHIT! They can't be replaced..You can't copy and paste your way to a good set of EARS..Todd often ghost wrote for his bands, and I imagine many other producers did as well..

Butch Vig and Rick Rubin came along in the 90s, and propped up the art form..But since then?...Can a struggling act afford a pro producer? Can a record company afford to? Are today's rockers SELF producing? If so, it ain't workin'...

James Spencer



Hated Journey then and still hate them now.

John Milo



http://on.wsj.com/2scwlGD

T



Is xxxtenacion and the south Florida scene punk? Rap? Rock?

Calvin Rosekrans



I will NOT admit that I hated Journey! ?I was a fan even when Greg Rollie was the singer, but especially after Steve Perry joined them. As I once told him he's someone who could sing the phonebook and make it sound good.

Gerry Hebert



Unfortunately, everything said here is true. As a geezer in the 21st Century, finding a current rock act that has the chops, and good songs is tough sledding. Yet, they do exist such as L.A.'s VINTAGE TROUBLE and Nashville's THE DEAD DEADS. No computers, dancers, and lip-sync over pre-recorded tracks. The real deal like it used to be.

What I find interesting is that the audiences of these two bands, and likely others, comprise of lots of geezers like myself, and the younger generation, in roughly a 50/50 split. VINTAGE TROUBLE labels their fans TROUBLEMAKERS and THE DEAD DEADS have THE DEAD CORPS. All are welcomed. I've never experienced bands that are smart enough to be this fan friendly. You want an autograph, a picture with the band, a drink together, a nice chat, no problem.

While rock may be dying, it ain't dead yet. Long live rock and roll!

Bruce Pates
Germantown, TN



Bob congrats this is a really well written piece - it flows well and sums it all up to a tee, then ties a bow on top.

I'd say you've worked on this one! Or maybe it just came out in one rush

But if I can say one thing - maybe it doesn't make sense to look at what's next in terms of what's already happened?

Why does the next evolution have to be huge?

Why can't it be an ecosystem of small things instead?

Why is big so important?

Virgil Donati is in my mind the greatest living rock musician in terms of pure chops.

I know he's a very boutique example, and not where you were going with your summarisation.

But you mentioned Yes, so here I go.

I've personally seen some very well known names in guitar live on stage with Virgil, who were not sure at some points if they were even still playing in time.

(Which is quite understandable, given the complexity involved and that these were small, one-off type tours).

If you're still not sure though, just grab one or two of his albums, and try tapping your own foot along to the music (for any decent length of time :)

So perhaps Virgil isn't a bad case study?

It seems to me he's made a choice to follow his own path fairly much without compromise.

I'm so glad that Dream Theatre said 'no' to Virgil!

Because maybe he wouldn't be out there working now creating his own totally originally music with some of the younger players he's been working with, who are just coming up.

This is the crucible of where the real birthing of new talent is happening - an older but massively talented person like Virgil, grinding his stone against young guys who have got something to prove.

Some of the new guys he's working with are phenomenal talents.

Hopefully they will take the baton and run hard with it.

I'm getting far more entertainment following what's going on in this ecosystem than I ever could listening to politically correct programming that automatically prevents us from hearing where the envelope is being pushed hardest.

But I'm just one very tiny voice, that doesn't matter at all to those whose first priority is to achieve bigness.

But that's totally ok!

What happens though if one of these new guys eventually hooks up musically with a singer having the inflection of someone like Stevie Nicks?

I think that's when we'll all stop dead in our tracks, and listen again.

Bigness will just be a by product.

Only serendipity can make that happen - like Larry Norman, standing in the middle of the rush with his hand on his head, looking back at the camera as if to say "what on earth is going on with this place?'

Until then, we'll all just keep driving to work and back each day :)

Evan Linwood



You're not wrong, Bob, and I'm glad to see you write about rock's deserved demise. Unlike hip hop, older rockers don't look for new, young artists and bring them into the fold. It seems to be less about a community - which we briefly saw in punk and the underground from the late 70s through to the early 90s - and more about maintaining their position. You don't see Kanye or Jay Z trying to keep down young rappers and producers - they collaborate with up and coming artists. Where is the reinvestment in rock music beyond chastising speeches about how young artists don't make real music because they use Pro Tools? Sorry not everyone can afford to rent out a nice studio and record to tape! Rockers would rather sell out as quickly as possible - get Capital One to sponsor their upcoming arena tour - rather than push boundaries. Would rather give the boomers what they want and go home.

As far as songwriting goes, that's more complicated, isn't it? It's not cheap to tour a rock band and despite the fact that the majors are making healthy profits, they would much rather get 9 producers and 5 songwriters who have a proven track record of churning out lowest common denominator "hits" to prop up the latest young pop robot with no talent - someone they can control and won't sue them and outgrow them in a few years.

Why haven't you seen a new rock band break through in the past 5 years? Part of it is what you're describing - a lack of songwriting and talent - but a lot of the artists who made great albums needed the guidance of a producer. Without a label to pay for said producer and fund the band, how do you expect anyone to break out without resorting to cheap tricks and novelties? Sure, you can talk about the power of the song all you want - but if no one can hear it through the noise and an artist can't afford to hold out until they can break through, how long do you expect them to keep at it?

The labels were never that supportive of artists and as soon as they weren't making what they were at the height of the CD boom, they tightened belts (except for million dollar bonuses for label CEO's and the head of the RIAA) and that was the end of trickle down economics and 'high tides raise all ships.' They stopped reinvesting and are perfectly happy to get their advances from Spotify every quarter and make out like robber barons when it goes public.

I'm not bitching about it - I'm too young to give a fuck about charts, platinum records, record sales, or any of that shit. I'm just saying that at a certain point economic realities (which you've touched on in your posts) play a role and deter talented songwriters from even bothering. David Bowie said he wouldn't have bothered to become a musician because he could see what was going to happen with copyrights - and this was the mid nineties! He wasn't bitter about it. That's a waste of energy. But he was realistic.

Rock's dead. Big deal. Nothing is forever. Time to move on. I'm more concerned about the steady devolution of songwriting, which you rightly emphasized. There are artists writing well-structured, emotional, melodic songs - you just have to look for 'em. I know, you can't be bothered. Too much information! Most people feel that way. But that's the division that has been created: the mindless mainstream and actual music fans who will take the time. I don't believe you can play in both worlds at this point, and if you think Taylor Swift is on par with Joni Mitchell, well, that's pretty funny. If you want to play the pop game, which as you frequently point out, is fickle and inane, then you best be prepared to dumb yourself down. Fuck that.

Harry



If you wish to see music used as a cultural force, see Baby Driver. You will not be disappointed.

What's the rush? A new sound will come, it always does.

As to your history lesson... I was a Top 40 radio personality in the 1970s and I'm here to tell you that Lee Abrams, as great as he is, was not the imprimatur you make him out to be. More than anything else, it was simply the eventual penetration of FM radios into the dashboards of cars that flipped the switch from AM to FM.

Top 40 FMs had long been trying to compete with the AM giants, but not until there was enough radios in cars could the business model work. And when it did, overnight, legendary AM stations were knocked off their perches.

And as far as progressive FM radio formats went, they existed on a cult following, the audiences were small. Sure LA and NYC had big progressive stations, but for the rest of the nation, few were listening; but their impact is undeniable.

I can also tell you that the record companies orchestrated the death of disco. It had nothing to do with the genres popularity. I remember the day a record promoter came to the station I worked and told us to be prepared for the death of disco, that the record companies were not putting anymore money into it because disco acts were mostly studio musicians, and that there was no money in the touring, or building catalog.

Most amusing was that despite Comiskey Park and all of the hoopla it generated, the clubs I worked as a DJ/music programmer were packed to the gills and people were still nuts for the disco sound, which didn't begin to change until the impact of MTV and DOR, dance oriented rock, with groups like the Romantics, etc.

The death of disco was a radio phenomena, it never died in the clubs, and that same basic sound of the 1970s can be found resonating in many club hits today.

As the owner of quite a few large nightclubs where I put on hundreds of concerts, I can assure you that rock died long ago. Yes, the big acts always continued to draw, but the small audience for local or touring rock acts had all but disappeared by 1991. Even back then, I was being paid by rock acts for stage time, a practice that continues today.

What's next? Nothing like what came before it because the world has changed. Mass media is a thing of the past. For the general public, Top 40 radio is dead. Even I can't stomach listening to KISS here in LA. Most Millennials can't even name the call letters of a single radio station, this according to Edison Research a few years ago at the RAIN Summit at NAB.

My guess is we will see much more of a mix of cultures in pop music, such as what Despacito represents. But the days of anything like the British Invasion happening again are long past. The audience is too splintered and there are too many distractions that now exist that were not even dreamt of in the 1960s or 80s, or even just 20 years ago, and this situation will only get more fractured.

Music still has the power to move people, and it always will, but there are simply too many entertainment choices for music to ever be the cultural force that it once was.

Frank A. Gagliano



There's a lot of variables you aren't addressing. To start with, MTV, a medium that once helped make modern rock stars and gave them the visibility and connectivity to their fan bases slowly shifted to an all rap/hip-hop/pop format in the late 90's and early 2000's. They stopped playing rock videos. Then they started focusing on trashy reality shows and stopped playing any ideos altogether. In the early to mid 90's there were shows on MTV (120 Minutes, Headbanger's Ball, Alternative Nation) that focused on rock music specifically. Don't forget that these videos are what made a lot of these bands icons. That visual element is largely missing from rock music now. The players are all anonymous and nobody knows who the hell they are.
YouTube is not the same. The huge marketing dollars poured into pop and rap/hip-hop give those genre's dominance in that marketplace.

And then you have to consider the death of physical music media (CD's/cassettes) caused by the music downloading boom of the early 2000's which slowly gave way to the streaming era we are currently in now. The product is now invisible and intangible. Easy to ignore, easy to forget in the maelstrom of playlists and pop singles. A book on your shelf is one you're gonna read. We have nothing to put on that shelf anymore.

Bands make a pittance from streaming. Bands don't get signed or cultivated (remember, it took R.E.M. and U2 4 or 5 albums to become superstars) anymore. Why should labels bother when they can wheel out the next pop whore and have a producer cook up some hits?

And just talking about the quality of the music itself...There's a reason you can listen to Nirvana today and it still sounds relevant and timeless. Pop and hip-hop from that same time period of the early 90's sounds horribly dated. Will it be any different in 20 years? Nobody will remember Lil Yachty, but we'll still be listening to Nirvana.

Rock didn't die. The industry died.

Jonathan Espeche



Bob,
There are so many things you get right (all your pieces on the Allman Brothers, for one: I can't agree enough), but then you write a piece like this and I can only think that you're just doing it to be controversial.

First, you and I both know that The Beatles weren't the "initial burst". Obviously, it was Elvis and Chuck Berry and Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis, etc. I wasn't around then, but I'm pretty sure people were saying rock was dead in 1959. Of course, the best was yet to come, and I still believe rock has some surprises for us. How many times have people said "rock is dead" and then along comes Kurt Cobain, along comes Jonny Greenwood, along comes Jack White, along comes Dan Auerbach, etc?
Speaking of which...

I live in Chicago and this summer three of the country's biggest and hippest music festivals will take place (not to mention the countless other neighborhood fests featuring live music): Lollapalooza, Pitchfork and Riot Fest. When you walk around these fests, whose lineups are dominated by rock bands (though certainly other genres are represented too), with tens of thousands of music lovers soaking it up and spending good money to be there, it sure doesn't feel like rock is dead.

Why do you ignore this? So much focus on pop music in your pieces. I don't get it. Pop music has always been big. Doesn't mean anybody will care five, ten, fifteen, fifty years from now. Look at the billboard charts from 20, 30 years ago. Does anybody care about 75% of those acts today? No! It's the great music that stands the test of time and oftentimes that music isn't even represented on the billboard charts. How many hits did Pink Floyd really have? Not too many, but they won't be forgotten soon.

Final points:
I teach guitar lessons. Rock music is in demand! Business is booming! I don't have time in the week to take on all the students coming my way. I'm talking about 7 - 16 year olds! I teach all ages, but the kids are especially hungry to learn guitar and they want to play rock n roll music! It's an amazing and beautiful thing when an 11 year old comes in and asks me: "Can we learn Stairway today? I think I'm ready."

And that nonsense about the death of the electric guitar: here's what really happened....

A bunch of old dudes from your generation (my father included) finally made some dough and started buying a lot of guitars because they always wished they could play but instead were too busy trying to make a lot of dough. I've taught these guys. Some own more and finer guitars than me but they don't know how to play them. The big numbers the manufacturers were seeing in the last decade were just a bubble built on materialism and a rash of accumulation. "I WANT that guitar!" Even though I don't know what to do with it. Now people may be buying fewer guitars but I believe they're buying them for the right reasons: because they actually want to learn how to play, not just look at them sitting in their office at work.

Just my two cents. Anyways, keep it coming! Controversial or not, it's always a fun read!

Will Phalen



Bob

What you're really talking about here is racial and social polarisation in America, it's the root cause of musical stagnation.

If we go through the bands you mention:

The 'British Invasion' was the sound of black American R & B combined with more traditional European styles, notably folk and classical.

Hendrix, Cream and Zeppelin were the sound of black American blues and R & B combined with the above.

Punk was the sound of disenfranchised poor white youth.

The Police were that mixed with black Jamaican reggae.

Wham! Culture Club (and Bowie's later work) were the sound of black American soul and funk mixed with more mainstream pop, and a little punk.

The British bands did this because they didn't realise that they weren't supposed to. They dug the music. Britain did not have the same racial Berlin Wall as America.

Rock is the sound of affluent white suburbs. More recent rock is the sound of affluent white suburbs where no black people are ever allowed, and where black culture is shunned. It's insular and vapid.

Hip Hop was originally the sound of disenfranchised black youth. More recent Hip Hop is the sound of black suburbs where whites never go and where white culture is shunned. It too has become insular and vapid.

The biggest selling Hip Hop acts, just like the great bands above, aren't afraid to step out of those straight jackets and cross over, absorbing influences from other social groups.

Today's biggest young acts are crossover.

Adele is a gospel singer who crosses with white pop.

Taylor Swift crosses country with pop.

Ed Sheeran is a folk singer who uses elements of rock and Hip Hop.

Bieber is going more into his folk roots. He's a talented guy - he could probably get his head around more complex musical tropes likes modulation and modes, which is what gave the Beatles their unique sound.

It's not that rock is dead, it's that racism and the culture divide are alive and well and flourishing in America.

Historically, it was the musicians who led the charge to break down this wall.

But rather than bemoaning the death of 'rawk' we need to be championing those who lead the way in breaking down cultural walls. Adele, Swift, Sheeran and Bieber are, whether you like them or not, leading the way.

John Carter



I think you hit a lot of really great points with this, as to why rock is dead. But I may have another angle that's pretty simple.
I am 47 years old, I develop young talent and this includes building, branding and managing social media. I am somewhat of an expert at Instagram and influencer marketing.
I think the answer as to why rock is dead is simply the Millennial's! (born mid to late 90s)
Have you ever been in a car with a teen, tween, or someone in their early 20's? They skip around songs listening for they call "the good part" or "hype" or "dope" and they really don't listen to a whole song. And quite honestly, they do not have the capacity to listen to a 3:30 song from start to finish.
So how in the world could these short attention span people even learn to play a guitar, a bass, drums, or piano? Or even have the social skills to form a group and hash out ideas? Why would they even want to when they can simply open logic, create beats, or buy beats, and add their own lyrics and melodies, alone? Of course there are the brave that try but they are rare.
These people don't even talk to each other to date anymore. Swipe right, lets go! :)

It's the generation of instant gratification, no self esteem, entitlement, save the world, non social, social media addicts. Of course it's not their faults, it's their parents faults.
Why would a label even want to pay for a rock band when they can sign one person and pay union for the musicians and crew? Music is a business right? You have to sell what the masses want or you'll be out of business.
Honestly, as someone who grew up in bands that moved quickly over to writing and production in the early 90's, I would have killed to have the social media access these kids have today for their music.
The crazy thing is I meet these kids with legit Instagram followings in the 100's of thousands that say "I just want to do music now and I don''t want to rely on my social media, I only want to be known for my music." WTF? This is the Millennial generation.


Best,
James Lucente



Bob –have really enjoyed your writings on the music industry---as a total music freak for over 60 years{I was in the first row in front of jimi Hendrix—Janis Joplin---cream---and on and on}----and at age 72 still going strong attending festivals and concerts------I can empathize completely with your historical background of rock------except-----no mention of the place Alt currently plays in the industry----in keeping the love and spirit of rock alive-----and the huge dedicated fan base these acts
Have created----- both in sales –concerts and festivals.I I'm talking Spoon—Gary Clarke jr---the 1975—Royal Blood----War on drugs----empire of the sun---wolf alice----I realize the market share of these groups is small----but taken in totality—with KEXP-----The Current{in my state ---minnesota} ---every city has an alt station----I believe Alt is keeping the patient alive-----and is the hope for the future----I also believe the Alt segment with the internet has created a kind of renaissance of creativity—where out of nowhere groups can find an audience and exist and thrive---so lets not give up hope----and of course no one can predict the"next big thing"-----maybe it will be a reaction—like Nirvana-------What do you think of this?-------anyways thanks for sharing so much—LONG LIVE ROCK AND ROLL ----sincerely Bob Stein



Died? Maybe more accurate a statement is rock has been injured... or... rock has mutated... or, maybe rock was in an increasingly disfuctional relationship to its surroundings and so it moved to a small-town because it's a better place to raise its kids.

Pfft.

I think what's hidden in this whole conversation is in the path and the method of delivery: From artist through tool, to art... and from art to audience member.

I believe there are two key factors in this:

1) The instrument (i.e. the tool) and the artist's relationship to the instrument are key.

2) And...our relationship to the resultant art... In music of course this means, the recording and how what's recorded (or performed live) speaks to us and why.

I explore this in my (just recently finished!) book, The Human of Being Art: A Holistic Approach to Being an Artist and Creating Art.

I believe that a well known phenomenon that exists in psychoanalytic counseling (in the therapist client relationship) that can be laid over the relationship between the artist and their work, and this work and the audience.

This is: Transference and Counter-Transference.

These terms refer to the unconscious transfer of emotions between client and therapist. You might say this is like the catching of emotion from another person as if it's an airborne virus... and how this virus of emotion (for better or worse) can (in a sense) mutate and then be transferred back to it's originator.

My related theory with regards to the arts is this:

• When artists truly emote into their work, that the work is imbued with the stain of their inner experience. (ARTISTIC-TRANSFERENCE!) (when an artist operates within their skill-set with total commitment to expression, they relate to their tools in ways that mirror their internal experience. Put simply, their multitude of artistic choices are guided by their truth.

• This work then travels to its audience... and the audience is then imbued with the emotional energy that's imbedded with the work... (ARTISTIC-COUNTER-TRANSFERENCE!)

If it's something an audience relates/connects to, it's a positive (i.e. welcome) experience, if not, it's a negative one, i.e. "I like this", or "I hate this".

I believe that indifference to art is often evidence that there was no real emotion imbued into the work, and it's an empty shell. The artist faked it. It was an exercise in heartless technique. A mannequin. A phony.

We see it all the time, artists too afraid (and insecure) to be vulnerable would rather put on a mask and create-then-express a false self-image... or worse: knowingly try to create something they think someone will like a pay for so they can get fame or riches. This can only work in the short term... fakes and phonies can't last... even they know it. People know the difference over time... it's like dating someone new... a few months in, the newness wears off and the truth is revealed.

Can we be momentarily tricked? Yep. Can we be distracted by falsehoods and manipulated? Yep. (the theoretical functions of harmony, melody, rhythm and sonics can of course be mindlessly and heartless used and abused)...

But time tells the true story. In the end what we really want is the honest truth.

But!!! it's also useful to notice that as human beings, we're not always after what is best for us. We binge on junk-food just as we binge on junk-art.

We're often fascinated and attracted to the fearless emotional expressions of The Artistic Narcissist or Ego Maniac. (shoutout to Kanye). We live vicariously at our own expense though.

So I agree to a great degree in your statement:

"So go back to the basics, vocals, lyrics, harmonies, bridges, songs... Or wallow in your marginalization."

But... it goes much deeper than that.

It's about why and how authentically the artist approaches their "vocals, lyrics, harmonies, bridges, songs"... as well as how authentically the producer/mixer/player/whomever (all artists in their own right) approaches their contributions. We each "phone-in" our contributions at our peril... and at the peril of the resultant art.

Being that this is my world (songwriting/production, engineering/mixing, playing multiple instruments and releasing my own records as well), I've been keying into this part of the issue and though it's troubling... There's really no way of knowing where things are heading relative to what we know of as rock music... and to some degree: who cares!

We can all be nostalgic about rock... but it's not like it's not available to us if we want it. And if an artist wants to make rock, make it. But, remember "rock" was just one very useful manifestation of a positive and non-regressive relationship between artist-tool-final result and audience. There are obviously others.

Rock is just highly primal and visceral, so it's understandable that some of us mourn the fact that it's been sidelined to some degree... but that has more to do with how novelty and other cultural factors play a role.

A guitar is a just a tool, it just so happens it's a VERY good one for many reasons... a guitar is the HAMMER that we used to build rock music... and it just so happens that tool (along with drums and piano of course) resonated for key reasons. Pun intended!

So what's up with electronic music?!?!

Technologically advanced instruments and methods of recording–when separated too far from the reality of how our bodies relate to the world–alienate both artist and listener in subversive and tricky ways, because of the way artistic transference and counter-transference happens.

Pick up a hammer and nail some wood together... build something with some good old fashioned grit and you FEEL (in every sense of the word) like you did something... and you did.

You interacted with the material world, and did so in the service of an idea... And that effort shows up in the final product... every half-bent nail, every missed hit, where you dented the wood... all the imperfections and rough edges: they're THERE. It's humanity manifested. The tool makes a difference.

Technology makes it easy to disembody the effort from the result. And it can do so in ways that are incredibly sneaky.

Making music on a laptop, using the plastic keys on a keyboard to trigger sounds in the digital domain, disconnect us from the physical reality of making those sounds... instead we manipulate 1s and 0s with digital limbs... we're often using samples and loops of instruments played by someone else for different reasons (fueled by difference subjective emotions/experiences) and we commandeer them without EARNING the result, or actively CHOOSING how to turn emotion into sound... we choose sounds, rather than make them... as if the ingredients of art are on a menu and we're going full-glutton.

This is a dangerous game, and here's why:

You didn't pick up the hammer... you didn't feel it's weight... you didn't swing it... hit... miss... blister your hands... you didn't EARN the result.

A guitar, a piano, a drum, a horn, a cello, whatever (any tangible instrument that gives its player direct, hands on control over the physical, non-digital world), forces you to wrestle with it to make your ideas... your EMOTIONS... come to life through it.

This effort connects our internal experience to our external one... there's a RELATIONSHIP happening. And there are unavoidable human realities about how ALL real relationships function outside the digital realm.

Disembody human interactions and relationships in a similar way, and you get the same regressive result... our worst traits run rampant... we become the trolls commenting viciously or message board-crashing... we engage in long distance digital relationships that are messed up and false... the list goes on.

This quote below from the Wapo article shows how easy it is to miss what's really happening... yes, programming on Ableton can be "just as creative"... but it's FAR easier to be creative in a direction away from our humanity because we're not using tools that allow us to have a more direct relationship with our result... it's much more difficult to engage in real ARTIST TRANSFERENCE in this domain. It can be done... but it's often done by those who are intuitively aware of this reality and who often take great care in manipulating sounds in order to get them to accurately reflect their inner experience... put simply, it's just FAR easier to get an "art-like" result in a DAW, without having actually emoted and wrestled with a real instrument.

This is why, in a very short amount of time, we've begin to see many of the top electronic music makers use more analog gear... not just because it sounds great (because we can fake that now), but you have to wrestle with its physical reality (which makes the experience of making art more tangible and therefore visceral) and you have to deal with its idiosyncrasies.

"Music is music," he says. "These guys are all musical heroes, whatever cool instrument they play. And today, they're gravitating toward programming beats on an Ableton. I don't think that's any less creative as playing bass. I'm open to the evolution as it unfolds. Musical genius is musical genius. It just takes different forms."

We want the real deal. We know it when we hear it... and I believe that to the degree we realize the WHY WHAT and HOW of where the real deal comes from, we'll be able to cut straight to the heart of things... both as artists and as audience members.

:)Adam Watts
www.WeAreBrokenCity.com



I so hope you're wrong!
Unfortunately for the time being you're probably right. I had lunch with Christian Tattersfield the other day. I wish I had taste as good as he does. He told me his 10-12 year old sons only listen to commercial hip hop. No interest in rock. Christian has Biffy Clyro and 1975. But his kids don't care!
But there must be a new leader out there somewhere.
I pray to god there is!

Richard Griffiths


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