Even More Brexit

Below you will find more missives from readers, testifying as to their truth re Brexit. But if you read only one thing on this vote/crisis, you must read Glenn Greenwald's article on intercept.com. Greenwald delineates the real issues at play, primarily the war between the elites and the have-nots, the contempt the former have for the latter. The educated upstarts believe they're entitled to a pass because they weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth, they had to fight to get ahead, so when they do things to their advantage they believe it's just the American Way. But who's looking out for the little guy? Unions have been decimated, jobs transferred overseas and you just can't make it in America anymore, no wonder the underclass is mad. This is a bigger issue than Trump spewing inaccurate inanities. This requires all the so-called "winners" of the world, especially the bleeding heart liberals, to examine their own values and behavior. It really has got less to do with right
or left, Republicans or Democrats, and more to do with elites on both sides of the aisle. Elites who have advantages those on the bottom do not, elites who can't even fathom what's happening on the bottom. I lose my job to overseas workers and then despite a flat screen costing two hundred bucks I've got to work a service job that doesn't pay the bills? What are all these displaced people gonna do for a living in the future? How are they gonna make ends meet? You can make fun of them all you want, but they're entitled to vote too. But then you'd have to have empathy, you'd have to refrain from climbing the greased ladder to stop and lend a hand to your brother and sister, you'd have to sacrifice for the greater good. I've been bothered by income inequality for a decade, frustrated that I could no longer get to the top as my brethren have. But I could not foresee this rampant unrest, the contempt for those who think they're smarter, have all the answers and reign herd over the rest
of us. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. Bob Dylan said that fifty years ago, the last time this country was up for grabs, when being a rock star was about speaking truth as opposed to garnering corporate endorsements. Which side are you on, indeed. We lionize and criticize the billionaires when we just don't realize the problem is us, the elites, we're to blame, the sons and daughters of sons and daughters of immigrants, who grew up with advantages and just couldn't get enough. The iron curtain may have fallen under Ronald Reagan, but greed was suddenly good, just ask Gordon Gekko. And I believe we live in a global village, but Clinton passed NAFTA and what exactly are those put out of work supposed to do for work? In both cases, a relatively thin layer of people profited handsomely. What about everybody else? We're asking that question now.

Glenn Greenwald - "Brexit Is Only the Latest Proof of the Insularity and Failure of Western Establishment Institutions": https://goo.gl/0BtAAW

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You're right: Brexit is a bit like going back to vinyl - only not as much fun.
I agree with Richard Griffiths, it's a bloody disaster.

It contradicts our open-mindedness, our sense of fair play and our inclusiveness, our history of acceptance and of standing up to extremism.

We are a small island close to a large continent. Throughout our history, ancient and modern, we have shared bloodlines, culture and ideas (and a few wars). My Dad who is 92 risked his life as a tail-gunner in WW2, he believes it was worth it for a peace in Europe that has lasted over 70 years.

Many Brexiteers believe that we will now return to the 'rosy' days of the 50s. That's your vinyl, right there. It sounds attractive but is it future-proof? Will it ever be centre-stage again? Of course not.

And they have very selective memories. In the 50s (and 60s and 70s) our food was terrible, our towns and beaches polluted, business, sport and politics were parochial, male preserves and our health was far worse too, rickets was still a common problem.

We've come a long way. Our changing face owes everything to the more open and cosmopolitan order in Europe. I'm proud to live in London. I consider it to be a great city of the World...of The World! And our immigrant population make it what it is.

This is a victory for Fear not Hope.

Republic of London, anyone?

Simon Toulson-Clarke
London

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An Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishmen walk into a bar.

The Englishman wants to leave so they all have to.

Sent from my iPhone that thinks too highly of itself

Michael Barber


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Dear Bob,

As a full time resident of London and member of the legal fraternity, I can assure you that the 'Music Editor' of the Guardian is living in a bubble.

The imposition of Sharia law is rife in the UK, with Muslim women and children bearing the brunt of the suffering ( especially in terms of divorce, inheritance and child custody issues).

I can also assure you that the London Metropol Police have designated numerous areas as 'unsafe' to patrol by police in groups of less than three officers due to constant harassment and threats by so called private 'Sharia Patrols' ( bear in mind that London police are still mainly unarmed ).

Finally, I can confirm that the new Lord Mayor of London has in fact, stated that advertising depicting women in "immodest states of attire" will no longer be accepted on any advertising media owned by the city (I.e. London transport ).

Instead of listening to people who pursue a left wing agenda such as that espoused by the Guardian, I suggest you do some research and talk to real Londoners who have witnessed first hand the seismic shift we are experiencing due to cultural changes.

Kind regards
Anthony McAuslan
Eaton Square, London

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Hi Bob,

As a 29 year old from the UK I feel ashamed to be English. The vote does not reflect my age group in the slightest.

I'm lucky to have been born here but it doesn't give me a right to say who can live next door to me.

Ed Hogston


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Hi Bob,
Conceived in London of Scottish parents, born in Canada when HST was still the US president. I find the Brexit both emotionally and intellectually engaging. I understand both the leave (gut-wrenching) and remain (settle) points of view.
My bias is that Scotland was betrayed. I know wealthy Canadian expats in London who would insist any construction contractor must be Eastern European because they give good value, unlike Brit workers who are supposedly lazy. I understand that Farsi is more widespread in Wales than Gaelic.
Most of all, I understand there's as a generational dividing line and I believe the young own the future.
Please keep encouraging this dialogue.
It's far from clear-cut but one of your readers is going to nail it! ...Certainly long before I get a valid insight from mainstream media.

Keith Brown
Crystal M+th Management

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I don't often like to comment about these sorts of things but as an ex-pat, now a citizen who loves this country, I will.

Try going to a restaurant on the Edgware Road in London as a Western woman!
The Edgware Rd is a main thoroughfare into the center of London and a host to Hilton Hotel that serves many US clients year round.

It's now about as "Beiruit" as you can get - formerly English and Arabic banners above doorways are now totally Arabic.
I met two American visitors recently who were literally thrown out of two successive Arabic restaurants near to their Hilton hotel - they loved that cuisine - "because they were women and did not have their heads covered"!! Thrown out !
Come to Chicago says I - we have that cuisine in many neighborhoods and you'd be very welcome and well fed.

Are you kidding? This is London not the Middle East and this kind of scenario is now being played out in so many neighborhoods in the UK. It's disgraceful and no-one, not one politician will step up and but these bullies down.

My wife and I walked that road on a visit last year and were spat at by Arabic women whose husbands sit outside their restaurants smoking their pipes. Can you imagine how we felt as Londoners? They think they own the place and they contribute nothing but hatred and instability to the economy and their community.

You think that can't happen here in our beloved USA? Dream on and look at the enclaves that already exist in Michigan and Minnesota and beyond.

I am no hate monger but this kind of behavior wether here or in the UK must be quashed.

Let's get back to the EU.
The entire EU paradigm has to change - it should never have been politicized - keep it as a free trade block with strict immigration policies to keep out the dangerous and the unwanted and limits on entries. A Federal Europe was always doomed to fail. America take note of all that is going on across the pond and don't be distracted by erroneous facts and speculative arguments.

All that said - please - don't vote for the wrong GUY in November.
For all his rhetoric he's sorely misinformed and plays to fear and sorely misinforms us.

Also note that the decisions made about Brexit have no comparison to what we have to decide in America.
We do have to tighten our border security, that's for sure but we have to make fundamental choices for our future and the next Presidential term..

The Brexit vote to remain lost because the "entitled" Millenials didn't vote - 35% of 18-25 year olds voted - what happened to the other, now angry 65%? Did they expected someone else to vote for them? A vote counts (when it's not usurped by an electoral college !).

Obama should never have got into this EU scenario and shame on him for commenting. Big mistake and a vote changer.

75% of the older population did vote - and they remember how fractuous and unstable a European Union - a Federation dissolving national sovereignty - would be and has been. Wisdom won the vote.

Take note America.

Vote wisely in November.

Michael Freeman

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Bob,

I wish I could take credit for the below, but it is a comment on Reddit I came across a couple of days ago that I think perfectly sums up Brexit (+6300 to date):

"Australia has had five prime ministers in five years, the poor yanks look as though they'll have to choose between two options both of which have more disapproval than approval, and the UK leaves the EU. It seems like a ridiculous amount of instability. One might even call it absurd.
But it's not surprising.
You can't feed a society exaggeration, hyperbole and propaganda for over a decade, and then claim surprise when people don't seem to be making rational decisions on the basis of well established truth.
There's a cost associated with not telling the truth. There's a cost associated with polarized, adversarial public discourse. There's a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
It is, apparently, time to pay the piper.

For the record, I am British, under the age of 40, college educated, of mixed ethnicity, and have been working in the US for the past decade. I still get to vote by absentee proxy, and I'm sure you can guess which was I cast my vote based on the previous info. I Googled the majority of pro-Brexit writers that you published, and although generalizations are never perfect, the consistency of these writers (male, white, over 50) is unerring.

I know the above comment makes me as much a part of the adversarial public discourse that the Redditor in question laments but it is tough to resist. Any objective, rational assessment of the impact to Brexit on the economy and our global influence is damning and yet the pro-Brexiters trot out the same lines that Boris and Farage have fed them for the past few months about sovereignty and playing on nostalgia.

Nostalgia, lest we forget, is collective amnesia, and us Brits have been involved in a decades-long cycle of it. How else do you explain working class people going to the polls every 4/5 years and voting the same Old Etonian, Oxbridge grads into power in the hopes that they will represent their best interests; interests that Cameron, Boris et al. could barely comprehend, yet alone advocate for.

Keep up the good work, fella.

Matt Howe.

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I love the comments about the EU being run by unelected bureaucrats, how the EU has destroyed democracy.

Perhaps one day I'll laugh about the irony that the only election I've ever been allowed to vote in was for my Minister of European Parliament. And now I'll no longer be able to do that either.

I was born in a small northern European country called Latvia that was occupied by the Soviet Union (talk about un-democractic. For all those who believe the EU was destroying sovereignty because of some fishing quota regulations or whatever, they don't know what it's like for another country to roll in with tanks and start giving orders. Sovereignty my ass).

Obviously, no voting there.

When I was still a little kid, my family escaped to America as political refugees. After ten years of a legal battle, we were granted legal residency but not citizenship, so, still not able to vote (despite working and paying taxes. I seem to remember someone once being upset about taxation without representation?)

And then I moved to London for a university. On my EU passport (after my home country declared independence when the Soviet Union collapsed, they worked hard to join the EU. They joined, ironically, so they could "protect' their sovereignty against Russia one day rolling in with their tanks again. Hyperbole? Just see what's happening in Ukraine right now).

So of course, I couldn't and still can't vote in the UK. Well, I "can" vote for Ministers to European Parliament. That was the first election of any kind I could ever participate in. I was 25.

You can't call something un-democratic until you truly live in a place where they block you from the voting booth altogether. My mother, in her late 50s, has lived her whole life never being allowed to cast a single ballot. For anything.

Yeah, I hear that immigrants like me have been mooching off the system this whole time. Mooching, like when I paid university fees as a foreigner that were so high that I subsidised the education of several Brits. Like when I've been paying into the universal healthcare provider, the NHS, for ten years and in all that time I've been to the doctor exactly twice (yes, twice.) Like when I provide employment to dozens of British crew members on my film sets.

Great. I guess the UK no longer needs contributions like that. That's fine. Good luck.

But that's not even what I'm upset about. I'm upset about the unadulterated racism that has now come to the surface. Now that Brits feel they've been unshackled from the politically correct chains that apparently made them bite their tongues this whole time, when all they really obviously wanted to do was shout racial and xenophobic slurs about "going home to your own country" to anyone in the street with a different colour of skin or accent.

My friends tell me I'll be okay. I'm white and I have an American accent. Is that supposed to offer some comfort!? The only reason I'll be protected is because of circumstances that were entirely out of my control in the first place? Is that supposed to make me and others like me feel better? That if only my skin was a darker shade or I sounded like one of my cousins who still lives in Latvia, I'd have to be afraid to walk the streets of Britain? But no, I'm white. I sound American. Others will suffer, physically, emotionally, psychologically. But I'll be fine.

What's so Great about that?

David Silis


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