On my way to SoHo House West Hollywood while reading this...how appropriate. How even more invigorating to read about Chris & Harrison who have been nothing short of THE BEST since the day I met them. Within the first 10 minutes you can tell if people "get it" in this business...I think it took about 6 before we agreed to work together. Or rather PARTNER. Because I've shot them opportunities and vise versa and you know what has *NEVER* gotten mentioned Bob... COMMISSION!! Imagine that. No splits, no 20% of this or that because the next generation (call it naive if you want) works off karma and hustle. Because if you got me, I got you. They didn't name it Visionary Music Group for nothing.
Hope to see you (perhaps at SoHo House!) soon Bob!
Kim Kaupe
Co-Founder, ZinePak
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Could not agree more and Chris and Harry. Got to know them well over the last couple years...both of their clients have played Gov Ball, and Logic in 3 yrs went from playing at 3pm in 2014 to headlining one of the outdoor stages this year. They 'get it' and have the natural instincts of managers twice their age. Great guys through and though...thanks, Jordan Wolowitz
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Chris Zarou is the best audience building manager in the business, period! He can take an artist like Logic or Jon Bellion from 200 to 500 to 1000 to 2500 to 5000 cap rooms without any radio airplay and make it look easy. Not to mention, both Chris and Harrison are mensches. They remember who believed early and ALWAYS make the extra effort to do right by them. I am fortunate to have met Chris early in Jon Bellion's career and since then he has put my name on the list for every Bellion & Logic show in LA. These are the good guys! Thanks for writing about them
David Silberstein
Mega House Music
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Love this story about Chris Zarou. Reminds me of my late business partner, Bill Aucoin who not only managed Kiss, but financed their first tours on his American Express card. Badasses always find a way to get it done.
He also insisted I subscribe to your newsletter (back in the fax days!).
BTW, Bill Aucoin should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Onward and Upward,
Chris J. Keaton
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Of course Chris manages Jon Bellion too! It only makes sense. I got to see Jon play Exit In in Nashville about a week after his current "first" album released. I still can't tell you if he can sing live, because the entire sold out audience, of which I was one of maybe 10 people over 21, sang every single word of every song along with him. It was a cult. And it was breathtaking.
-
Jeffrey James
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Love this.....I took my son Jonah (14yrs) to see Logic in S.F 3-4 weeks ago. He asked me to take him...great show.
Joel Gomez
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Baba Booey graduated from Adelphi!
Dan Millen
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Fucking great! Thanks for sharing!
I know logic and chris bc I did a collab record with logic, big gigantic and my client ROZES.
Keep it up bob!
Paul Mencel
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Nothing to do with hunger and passion, they just knew how kids consume music these days. Every suburban high school boy is obsessed with Logic and Jon Bellion. They don't care about record labels, etc, they create a playlist in sound cloud and listen over Wi-Fi on their phone. They don't even download it....that's old school. Nicole Skyer, Marlboro, NJ
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I curated talent direction for the Monster Energy Outbreak Tour, and fought hard to book Logic - the Under Pressure tour - which went out to Europe.
I did it because the music was great and the brand they were building cared about the community it had garnered. I had watched the incremental growth over years from just a bunch of college kids making music in the basement. They had the same energy and scrappiness/resourcefulness that startups have in the early stages.
I'm proud to have helped catalyze the transition into a more global tour and I'm still just as much of a supporter of Bobby, Jon, Chris and Harrison.
Looking forward to watching them grow and evolve even more as the audience and community gets bigger.
I love reading your takes on the industry's history and what owe homage to. But thanks for writing about the future as well.
Ryan Gill
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Bob,
I absolutely loved reading this.
Chris & Harry are killers and are leading the way along with a bunch of other great innovative young managers in shaping the future music landscape. Guys like Chris, Harry, Pat Corcoran and a bunch of
others, have incredible visions for the long game in the new music space.
Smaller & leaner teams, better splits over big advances. And as you said, the real key, understanding that audience comes first.
With social media and the power of music discovery online now, it really is an even playing field, where the new guys with fresh ideas can equally rule.
Glad you were able to shed some light on Chris & Harry. We young appreciate it... and as you're now seeing, some of us really do read The Lefsetz Letter still :-)
- Andrew Gertler
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I LOVE Logic.
He sold out 2 nights at The Greek last month. And he said the future of his music is not rap. He wrote and performed a ballad, and wow'd the audience with "Things Will Never Be The Same." It's beautiful. Take a look/listen:
https://www.facebook.com/FanseeApp/videos/1823617774331617/
David Appelbaum
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Hi Bob. This one about Chris made me smile …
When I was 24 I quit my first job out of college in Florida working for a prestigious money manager to move out to LA with no job lined up but plans to become a "music manager." I did a year at WMA while hustling an unsigned hip-hop group from the mailroom, doing deals in the bathroom stall, and faxing promoters offer sheets in between offer sheets for The Killers and Blake Shelton. One day, one of the other assistants who knew I was managing tipped me to manager assistant position at Frontline. I got the job from a stack of hundreds of resumes. Did a year there and learned more from sitting outside Irving's office than I did from the manager I assisted. But one day outta the blue the manager let me go. No explanation other than something about wanting an executive assistant and not someone who actually wanted to become a manager. I was crushed. But I had my side hustle going and truly believed in it. We started a company to release our music because the industry didn't care about hip-hop back in 2007-2009. I took unemployment and pushed on. Even ran out of money. Then one day we got a call from Peanut Butter Wolf and the rest is history. The DJ in that hip-hop group was Mayer Hawthorne. It was a crazy time (and a crazy story how it even happened). From the press, to the labels, to the trends Mayer popularized, to the celebs shouting him out, and everything in between and beyond … the whole journey was about learning by doing, and being smart while doing it.
Best,
Jeff Klein
Co-founder/Managing Partner A-Side Worldwide (2007 - 2017)
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Hello Bob,
My name is Chas and I'm starting this fall at Northeastern Univ. as a music industry major. I loved this piece. I remember the summer prior to this one I was at a summer program at the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music at NYU. On some of the evenings they would bring in speakers from the music biz to come and talk to us, one of the nights they brought in Chris Zarou.....
I remember taking the elevator up to the room where the event was and in steps this one guy who's wearing Jordans, jeans, a plain white shirt (one of those crappy "Fruit of the Loom" type ones) and who's listening to music on his phone. I ignored him thinking that it's just some other kid from NYU coming to see Chris speak. We get to the room and I found out that that guy was actually Chris! I'm still pretty new to the biz and I had no idea what to expect but definitely something more along the lines of a middle aged dude in nice clothes, not a kid in Jordans. This taught me a big lesson that age and appearance doesn't matter as much as connections, knowledge, passion, and a big part of what you mentioned, hunger!! I remember him mentioning taking Def Jam's advance money for Logic and using it to bankroll a national tour. Again like you mentioned how Logic and Chris are hungry, I totally agree. To get ahead in the biz you really need to persevere. Using the advance dollars to go on tour is such a great example of what it takes to get ahead. They took a risk early and are now reaping the benefits (Logic's LP from this year just went gold I hear). Many artists take their advance dollars and don't really reinvest it in themselves. To be successful in the music biz in 2017 not only do you have to make great music, but you also have to be conscious about growing your fan base, brand, etc., something Logic/Chris are very mindful of.
Also, I totally agree with the part about Logic's lack of radio airplay. As the music biz moves more and more into the future, we're having difficulty separating ourselves from already established institutions that are becoming more and more irrelevant. Chris wasn't concerned about airplay because he knew that playlists were the future and it's where kids discover new music, and he's absolutely right! Also, the lack of airplay might be part of the explanation why Logic's debut LP was under shipped, very interesting. Maybe Logic will start to finally get airplay with his "1-800" single, which seems to pander to radio, but is still a really great song. A terrific music video came out for it very recently as well.
Also, I've noticed how well his past LP has been received by fans despite only mediocre reviews from Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, etc. BUT WHO CARES. I don't know any of my friends who read these publications, despite the older generation of folks in the music biz still thinking that these publications are very relevant and that your average teenager reads them, which they don't. People love Logic because he makes music THAT MATTERS TO THEM. People love songs like "1-800" because they can relate to it and connect emotionally. Isn't that what making music is all about? ITS ABOUT CONNECTING WITH PEOPLE and Logic is terrific at it. Forget what bullish music publications say.
Thanks for your time,
-Chas Gilman
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"WHO BOOKED THIS?
Some guy at an independent that no longer exists who is now at Paradigm. Although Logic is at WME. You see, you've got to start at the bottom, with people who are hungry and wet behind the ears just like you, they're interested, they want to make their bones with you."
Matt Adler is the "some guy" at an independent that no longer exists who is now at Paradigm. He got his start under Jesse Kirshbaum at NUE Agency (the independent that no longer exists) and he made 10x more money than the average 22-25yr old booking college shows while he was there.
Jesse and Adler hired me straight out of college. As a student, I bought all the concerts at University of Vermont and booked a handful of them through NUE. When they found out I was a college kid cutting deals with people like Peter Schwartz and Hunter Williams using jargon I picked up while interning for Sam Kirby at WME (she didn't even know I existed the entire summer), they immediately offered me to join the team. Adler is the reason I joined, he was young and having fun plus it sounded a hell of lot better than the mail room at CAA!
Adler started signing acts and quickly got into the hard-ticket game, routing tours across the country, meeting talent buyers in rooms of all sizes and taking care of the promoters and venues that took care of him. Adler could clear holds at any 300-1200cap venue because he wasn't burning bridges on every show like so many other agents. He made sure the promoters won, even if it took more than one time through a certain market - he was young but respected for this. Whether it's the reason Logic eventually left Adler, who knows. Artists don't always see how the sausage gets made and when they put pressure on the manager, firing your agent is a quick and easy fix - but Adler's at Paradigm now and simultaneously earning his MBA at NYU Stern.
Matt Adler will have the last laugh.
-Greg Ramey
P.S. NUE Agency (http://nueagency.com/) still exists but pivoted from a boutique booking agency into a branding/experience agency, connecting artists to Fortune 500 brands - they're cashing much bigger checks now.
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Dear Bob,
Big fan, wanted to reach out.
I am the "wet behind the ears agent that booked that first tour". It's an honor to be mentioned.
Chris and Harrison are two smart managers. Two of the smartest, in fact.
That tour was a defining moment for us all.
Best,
Matt Adler
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Thoughtful and great letter, representative of great people. We love Logic, Chris and Harrison and very grateful to be in business with them all…we actually represent Logic, not WME =)
Mac Clark | CAA
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"Logic. I never write about him because a guy from the label has hammered me so hard on him. It's a people business. And when you come on like a bulldozer, it turns me off. Especially when all the data is up close and personal for you to see."
I only hammer when it's the real deal. There is no benefit in me hammering anyone on some wack, fabricated nonsense. You don't know me, but if you hear from me, it more than behooves you to pay attention.
Oh and Logic's "1.800" has been worked since May and is currently #3* @ Rhythm and T25 @ Top 40.
Thank you for the ink on one of the most important artists of this generation.
Noah Sheer
Def Jam Recordings
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TAYLOR SWIFT:
The song is an album track at best. If I wrote it and sent to my manager he wouldn't even respond.
Danny Jay
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Sadly I have to agree. If this was a release by any other artist it would be a middling result at best—it will only be through Taylor's name and fanbase that this song is dragged to the top of the charts. There is none of the pop magic that songs like Shake It Off, Style or We Are Never Getting Back Together had.
-Zach Ziskin
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The first time I heard this song something very strange happened to me for the first time ever, and I don't think it was out of coincidence. I had no idea it was Taylor Swift's new single when it came on, and it was kind of in the background. The first ten seconds made me think, "Oh, Lorde has a new single out." Then twenty seconds later, "Wait, is this Katy Perry?" .. and then, "Lady Gaga is on this?" Is no one in the broader media going to point out the fact that Swift all but completely ripped off at least three of her competitors in trying to forge a "new identity"? It's painfully obvious.
Fuckin' pop music, man. It's disheartening.
Brian Frederick
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Ugh I cannot be bothered to even listen, though at some point soon I'm sure I won't be able to avoid it
When I saw the stories about her viral stunt I groaned
When I saw the associated image of her, I groaned again.
Really, her again?
She's rich. She has the ability to go away. Evolve, do something true. But she remains self fixated, ego driven like all the rest of us.
Simultaneously dull & infuriating
Colleen Kenny LaRocque
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Say what you want about Taylor but she is a force and a mega talent. This song though is a turkey with no meat, or dry as hell.
Tony Von Pervieux
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In real life the sentence, "Look what you made me do," is one typically uttered by blamers, abusers and, generally, people unwilling to take responsibility for their actions. I'd love to ask her why, after creating a life fueled by self empowerment, she's taking this path. Seems out of character. The song later talks about getting smarter and rising up, but it's tough to get past that title.
Deb Wilker
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DIANE WARREN:
I love Diane.
She's The greatest songwriter of her generation.
I love that she just keeps going.
Every so often she sends me a song she think I could use. Haven't taken one for years but she still sends them and I always listen the second it arrives. I know there will be another diamond one day.
You mentioned her old studio.
About 20 years ago I went round to see her and hear some songs. I accidentally knocked over a dusty pile of cassettes. I thought she was going to kill me!
Luckily she forgave me.
Does she still keep a parrot?
Richard Griffiths
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I am a producer of MARSHALL and I very much appreciated your thoughts on Diane Warren's wonderful song. She truly is a genius and her contribution to our movie cannot be overstated.
We believe that we have made a movie that is relevant and entertaining and I hope that you see MARSHALL when it opens on October 13th.
Sincerely,
Paula Wagner
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Back in the late 70s, my partner Susan Pomerantz and I were having a congratulatory lunch at the Mexican restaurant on Sunset near Highland. We were talking as publishers about our then-current #1 record, "Too Much Too Little Too Late" (J. Mathis / D. Williams) when the young woman sitting nearby said she couldn't help overhearing our conversation and asked if we were in the music business. We said we were. She was Diane and she told us she was a frustrated songwriter signed to a publishing deal with someone who couldn't seem to get anything going with her songs. She asked if we would listen to the songs and if we liked them, maybe we could work something out with the publisher. We did listen, we heard well-written songs and thought we could help placing them. She set up a meeting with the publisher but even though nothing was happening through his efforts, he refused to consider co-publishing in the event we succeeded in obtaining results. That ended any possibility of working with Diane.
Over the years, I bumped into Diane in the studio owned by Criterion Music Corp., where she recorded her demos for a time. By then she'd had some hits and the conversations were fleeting as she was totally engaged in her demo work.
She was, and continues to be, a great songwriter who is everything other respondents have described her to be.
Best,
Peter S. Burke
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Bob. I had the pleasure of recording and mixing "There You'll Be" for Faith Hill with Diane and Trevor Horn. A year later I was on a flight on September 11 to Los Angeles from NYC. We were downed 2 hours later in Detroit and my friend and I were stranded near Detroit Metro airport and much to my surprise that song became the momentary 911 anthem playing 20 times a day on the local radio. Funny how songs help people to connect in times of distress. Diane's brilliant. I also know that building well from Babyface to Mike Caren. The music biz is getting smaller every day.
Bassy Bob
NYC
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Here's how hard Diane works: Back in my music supervision days, I was up for a gig and waiting anxiously for news from the studio. A driver shows up at my office with a hand-addressed package containing a freshly cut CD along with a note from Diane, whom I'd met maybe once or twice max: "Dear Dan, I hear you're going to be the music supervisor on such-and-such movie. I hope you'll have a listen to these two songs I've just written for that film. Many thanks, Diane." And I did get that movie. The obvious point is that Diane was networking so hard that she knew that the studio picked me before I did. Like all great artists, Diane is a bit of a quirk, but I find that really endearing, and her talent is absolutely undeniable. Good call on your part to shine some light.
Best wishes,
Dan Carlin
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I have represented Andra Day. One of the brightest careers going. And a spectacular human being. Glad to see she was in your orbit at the right time Bob.
Ken Freundlich
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Love Diane. She can write like nobody's business, has the mouth of a trucker and a heart of gold AND she loves animals. She deserves all of her success. She earned it.
Anita Heilig
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A SMASH. Andra killer singer Another Aretha. Love, Jerry Greenberg
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Bob,
Maybe I've been reprogrammed by social media... I keep looking for a 'like' button when I read your missives.
Your piece about Diane Warren is a case in point. For music to make it, it has to has to speak to the spirit. The world, and the music industry, needs a lot more like her. All the songwriter committees and corporate wonk marketing will never replace the lone person who has put heart and thought and emotion into their craft.
But I'm preaching to the choir here I guess...
Keep em coming. I look forward to each one.
Regards,
Philbo King
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As a MelodicRock artist, producer and songwriter, I have always been fascinated with the work of Diane Warren. Not only does she know how to write a great song, but knows how to tailor fit the song for the right artist. She's amazing!
Bryan Cole
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So, I noticed all the people who claimed to know Diane Warren. I have no doubt they do. I think that's part of her success. She really nurtured relationships in the industry. Of course, no one can write a song like she does, but she also got to know people and learned how this industry works.
In the early 80's I put KOST on the air for COX along with the brilliant Jhani Kaye. Liz Kiley did "Love Songs on the KOST" ... one of the first Love Songs shows. Diane used to call Liz all the time at night when she was doing her show. Two people getting to know each other on the request line. Diane's Dad used to call the request line too. Diane and her Dad loved Radio. Or they loved Liz and her show.
I don't remember how or why but the program director, Jhani Kaye, and I got to know Diane as well. I can't remember exactly when, but I feel like it was during the time Debarge-"Rhythm of the Night" was a hit. The girl on the freakin request line has a hit record!! Liz Kiley and Diane had became good friends. At KOST we would have a music meeting each week to add new music. Jhani, Liz and me. It was not unusual for Diane to call us during this meeting. Jhani refused calls during the music meeting but he usually took Diane's. We were usually late on adding songs. We were usually not late on adding Diane Warren songs. When there was a Diane Warren record out, the label didn't need a promo person because Diane was now calling Radio herself. She learned how it all worked. Usually her songs didn't need promotion. They could speak for themselves! Then she learned about call out research. KOST did a lot of research. She would ask us how her songs were doing and we would tell her! Highly unethical I suppose.
When I stopped consulting and went to Summit Broadcasting we had stations in every format and we had some of the biggest Urbans in the country. Diane had started writing for Urban artists. We played her records and I told her how her songs were "testing" ... this whole time she was getting an education in how Radio worked. She watched R and R. Got to know the PD's and she would call them about her songs. Can u imagine...as a PD I had gotten calls from an artist but never from the songwriter.
I remember going to dinner or lunch with her and all the napkins on the table being full of scribbled down lyrics. She would stuff them in her pocket when we left. I imagined those scraps of napkin would all get together in her pocket and create a hit. How else do u explain so many great songs? Fun fact...she used to bring her bird into restaurants under her jacket. Super healthy. The bird would just chill while we ate. No one knew it was there. She loves her animals. Never trust a songwriter who doesn't love animals!
Over the years she sent me dozens of cassettes with demo songs. She sent these to dozens of people. I saved mine. Have them all.
I went to the studio when she was doing "Turn Back Time" for Cher. She was really in may ways the writer, producer, and engineer of that album. She has a crazy sense of how her songs should sound.
She has bothered to learn the business. How the charts worked. How Radio worked. How call out worked. How promotion worked. She learned it all. How many songwriters learn that stuff? How many artists really know how it works?
I think her Father sensed something special in the girl. She was lucky to have a Dad who encouraged her, other wise we would not have the simple joy that is a Diane Warren song.
Mary Catherine Sneed
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From: Gary Einhorn
Subject: Diane Warren Rips Taylor Swift Over Petty Hidden Messages on New Album
DIANE WARREN: NO TIME FOR TAYLOR'S HIDDEN MESSAGES ...She Ain't The Beatles!!!
http://www.tmz.com/2017/08/25/diane-warren-taylor-swift-hidden-messages-album-art/
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BONUS:
My 11 year old was sitting behind me over the weekend as I read this.
He said: Who is Bob Lefsetz? I really like what he's writing.
Why? I asked.
Because it feels like he's speaking directly to me and he makes a lot of sense.
James Cham
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